pulling someone out backwards
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,330
Likes: 17
From: Dryden, ON, Canada
If it was an issue worth worrying about, every make but Ford would have had major issues with front diffs, low pinion fronts were the standard for years, I thoroughly abuse the front 60 in my Dodge with no issues, and it has been since new, the truck has had a plow on it since 1993, and has around 407K miles on it, with the factory gearset in the front yet. Plowing is extremely hard on parts to put it mildly.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 208
Likes: 1
Ok first off let's get rid of that whole high pinion term all together.... Yes the pinion sits higher in the case but the only reason that term ever surfaced is because too many people were getting confused by calling the gear sets reverse cut gears. And the issue with plowing and the fact that most people in the offroad forum have never seen damage to a gear set while in reverse boils down to nothing but the fact that we are useing large axles for what we are doing. Most 60s can handle what we are doing because of there size. Try yanking a truck using half ton axles and you will have more problems!
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,669
Likes: 2
but what Im saying is I HAVE.
I beat up on my D44HD in my 79 F250 for years before I swapped in a 60. I broke countless axle shafts ujoints and hubs but never a R&P.
I beat the **** out of my 96 ranger with a D35TTB (thats right boys and girls) for almost 10years with 33 and 35" tires. Broke several sets of axle shafts, ujoints, a carrier once and I think 4 sets of auto hubs before switching over to warn manuals but never a R&P.
Could I be lucky? Yeah probably. The facts are around this town noone has beefy axles. D60 doesnt mean much to anyone. A majority of the guys I know bring me their truck when they tear it up (especially 4wd related) and Ive never personally seen a broken R&P because someone specifically pulled in reverse. Most of the time the gear sets screw up because someone welded their front carrier and they break a ujoint/yoke and it jams up in the knuckle and that chips a tooth or two.
I beat up on my D44HD in my 79 F250 for years before I swapped in a 60. I broke countless axle shafts ujoints and hubs but never a R&P.
I beat the **** out of my 96 ranger with a D35TTB (thats right boys and girls) for almost 10years with 33 and 35" tires. Broke several sets of axle shafts, ujoints, a carrier once and I think 4 sets of auto hubs before switching over to warn manuals but never a R&P.
Could I be lucky? Yeah probably. The facts are around this town noone has beefy axles. D60 doesnt mean much to anyone. A majority of the guys I know bring me their truck when they tear it up (especially 4wd related) and Ive never personally seen a broken R&P because someone specifically pulled in reverse. Most of the time the gear sets screw up because someone welded their front carrier and they break a ujoint/yoke and it jams up in the knuckle and that chips a tooth or two.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 208
Likes: 1
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that its going to happen... All I'm saying is that its harder on the gear set to be going in reverse. IF one was going to fail itd be easier to do it in rewind because of the way the gears are cut
FTE Chapter Leader
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 11,273
Likes: 100
From: North Dakota
I know, I have never broke a ring or pinion in a half ton app. I did bust countless axles shafts, ujoints, broke a spool in half, and a carrier. Blew thw bearing caps off the third member on a 9 inch. But wilh all that the ring n pinions where fine. Only one I broke was in my D60going down hill. Go figure.
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Elder User
Joined: Oct 2009
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From: Lawrenceville, Ga
That's right you'll go along with it cuz that's what I said to begin with. 
FTE Chapter Leader
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 11,273
Likes: 100
From: North Dakota
Umm, here is what I don't understand, IF they are stronger one way over the other, WHY didn't Chevy run a reverse cut gear in the front axles on their pickups?
I find this argument like the one obout the grease zurk fitting location on a u joint being a weak spot.."If you put the ujoint in backwards it will break easier" Its BS...
I find this argument like the one obout the grease zurk fitting location on a u joint being a weak spot.."If you put the ujoint in backwards it will break easier" Its BS...
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 208
Likes: 1
Chev did run reverse cut gears in all their ifs. And dodge used then at times too. Hands down they are stronger! With your argument why didn't all pickup trucks come with d60 fronts or even 2.5 tons? Maybe at certain times with certain loads the oem didn't think it was nessicary to run a stronger gear set.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,669
Likes: 2
^^^ that makes no sense.
we are talking about a ring and pinion. It doesnt cost more to manufacture a HP gear set vs a LP gear set. It does however cost more money to produce a D60 vs a D30. There had to be a reason auto makers went from LP as a standard to HP as a standard. I dont feel it was because they "knew" reverse cut gears were weaker in reverse. I think axle clearace was one big reason.
we are talking about a ring and pinion. It doesnt cost more to manufacture a HP gear set vs a LP gear set. It does however cost more money to produce a D60 vs a D30. There had to be a reason auto makers went from LP as a standard to HP as a standard. I dont feel it was because they "knew" reverse cut gears were weaker in reverse. I think axle clearace was one big reason.
FTE Chapter Leader
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 11,273
Likes: 100
From: North Dakota
Ford started HP axles back in the the mid
70s, Chevy started using themin the what late 80s? is there any proof that a HP is stronger than a LP? I really wouldn't think there is much of a difference. I think when I droke mine, it was due to gear deflection, and some half shot carrior bearings. A proper backlash prob has more to do with a strengh of a gear set than if it reverse cut or not.
70s, Chevy started using themin the what late 80s? is there any proof that a HP is stronger than a LP? I really wouldn't think there is much of a difference. I think when I droke mine, it was due to gear deflection, and some half shot carrior bearings. A proper backlash prob has more to do with a strengh of a gear set than if it reverse cut or not.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 208
Likes: 1
Ford didn't use the reverse cut gears knowing they were weaker in reverse they used them because they were stronger in drive than a standard cut gearset a standard cut gearset in a front axles uses the coast side of the gearset when in drive that's why they are weaker. And the cost of building trucks with reverse cut gears would be higher because they would be buying 2 different gearsets to build 1 truck instead of using 2 of the same gearsets. They went to the reverse cut gearsets because they are stonger when in drive which is what the vehicle sees most of the time
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