Ok, so I wanna get my mind made up once and for all. For the last few months I've pretty much had my mind made up that I was going with an SCT Livewire, mostly because of the fact that it's the same as the X3 just with built in guages. But with a recent post I put up about a deal I got on a Edge Juice w/ Attitude, I decided to put it on ebay and use the proceeds to get an SCT (vs. putting the edge in and fiddlin with it till I get the funds for an SCT). Here are my multiple questions: What is the difference between the X3 and the SF3? Because from the description on SCT's website, they seem like the exact same thing. Which ever one I decide to go with, does the idea of getting one of these two programmers and just using a DashDAQ or Insight to monitor parameters sound like a good idea? What's the difference between the Insight and the DashDAQ? The DashDAQ is way more expensive, but is the price difference worth whatever feature differences there may be?

So I just went on SCT's website and read that the X3 can store 3 custom tunes and the SF3 obviously cannot. So is that the only difference? And here's my final question. If I go with the X3, and I can store 3 custom tunes, which custom tunes would you guys recommend based on this information: I drive 30 miles to school each day (its 30 miles there and back), I pull RARELY (maybe once every few months), mostly looking to get gas mileage out of it, and the occasional race with the local rice burners and mustangs. I also like to see some good thick smoke every once-in-a-while. I know it's bad for the engine, just cool to see every now and then (please, no lectures). The reason I'm doing away with the Edge is because I heard they're awful on transmissions (and I could definately tell in the race settings with all the jarring around), so if everyone around here recommends the SCT, then I take it they're not bad on the trannies? Thanks for any input guys!

 

I would stick with the X3. Just because it only stores 3 tunes at a time doesn't mean that you can't get more then 3 tunes.

No, they are not bad on the trannies because they actually program the trannies for what the tune is designed to do(tow, race, DD whatever).

I will add this, with custom tunes your ability to realize mpg gains are greater then off the shelf tuning(such as the Edge that you had), however, you really shouldn't do tuning mainly for economy. If you see mpg gains, great enjoy it, but don't expect it to happen. Rather you keep the truck stock or tune it, in order to realize any gains you are going to have to be modest with how you drive it, irgo, if you are looking for better economy just "train" your foot accordingly. I will say this, I find it ironic that you are concerned about mpg and yet you want to occasionally roll the smoke on out, both of those are mutually exclusive(that's all I'll say on that, I know you didn't even want that, but my big mouth precludes that from happening atleast where I'm concerned).

 

I just bought the X3 and stacked it on my Juice with Tude. I have the Juice set on "0" for the OEM strategy with the X3 "Street" tune from IDP installed. Eric said the stacking is OK for the tunes I have. The Juice adds just a bit more timing over the actual OEM strategy but in my case it is fine. I kept the Juice strictly as a EGT and BOOST readout since I have the pillar mount already installed for the monitor. I got the "Street", Tow/Brake" and "Economy" custom tunes with my X3.

The X3 is far superior to the Jiuice. My tranny shifts like a dream now. It holds the shifts longer and they are nice and firm. The throttle response is impressive over the Juice with zero turbo lag.

If I had to choose between the Juice and the X3, it would be the X3 hands down. That is a no brainer!

DSMMH

 

As Tex said...the X3 stores 3 custom tunes only, wheras the SF3 stores 3 custom tunes and comes pre-loaded with 5 canned tunes (Performance, Street, Tow 65HP, Tow 50HP, and Tranny only). The benefit of the SF3 is that SCT provides free updates to their preprogrammed "canned" tunes based on the latest strategy you have on your PCM. This way you always have updated stragey driven tunes. The customs tunes are written by independent tune programmers that write the tune to match your trucks strategy. Many of us use the SCT X3 or SF3 to get the job done as far as tuning goes since its the safest on our trannies...and many of us run Edge Insight to monitor the Multiple PIDs our PCM puts out. #1....EGT probe.

 

Ok, so let me make sure I got this down...the X3 only store 3 custom tunes and the SF3 comes preloaded with 5 AND can store 3? Is there a difference in their reliability or how they perform? Seems like the SF3 would be a slightly better choice, since they are the same price on SCT's website. I don't know of course...this is just my assumption based on common sense and no actual knowledge of the stuff.

 

Canned tunes are canned tunes, these are perhaps a little bit better, but not to the full extent that custom can give you over canned. They aren't going to be tweaked to your individual needs. You are still only going to have the option of 3 custom tunes in the device at one time.

About the only time you'll actually get benefit from the canned tunes is during the transition period between you have new tunes written for your new strategy(if you ever have your truck's computer flashed for some reason). Or if you don't go the custom route at all and just stick with the canned tunes period.

In my mind, custom is your only real advantage with going with SCT and canned tunes are still limited in what they can do for you. So really, the option of having 5 canned tunes as well as being able to store 3 custom tunes isn't as good in it's choices as it is made out to seem. Depending on how the tunes are written on the canned ones, you can actually have a bad experience with them(since they aren't tweaked to you), not exactly bad as in damaging, but bad as in you don't like them. Some do, some don't. Because of that, I don't count getting 5 canned tunes as a real benefit due to the chance that they may or may not work for you. Typically canned tunes(particularly the hotter ones) don't really care for me and how I drive. I could be just a bad driver I don't know, but they don't usually care for me.

It's up to you, but just because you have more tune storage, doesn't really mean you are getting more benefit. I'm not saying that you won't, but don't assume that you will right off the bat either. It'll all depend.

 

Ok, I get what you're saying. So who do you guys recommend and not recommend for custom tunes? I was looking on dfuser's website and if you pay like $80 you get lifetime custom tunes from them. Is it worth it? Are they any good? And also, do SCT tuners have a license so that they only work on 1 vehicle or can you tune multiple vehicles? And I've got a friend interested in tuning his '06 350 CC SRW FX4 King Ranch. He pulls a 16' trailer with 2 X-Mark mowers pretty much everywhere all the time. I've heard from a lot of local friends that tuning (even towing tunes) is not a good idea when pulling a lot with the 6.0. Is this true?

 

As far as SCT goes, I think the majority would say Eric at Innovative.


To my knowledge there is only one tuner that allows for multiple vehicle tuning and that's the Spartan Phalanx and you do have to buy individual licenses to do that as well. The SCT will only tune one vehicle at a time, but you'll be able to pull codes(such as it is) from as many as you like.


That depends. Some tow tunes are designed for certain loads, the more street performance type of tow tunes for example aren't recommended for the higher tow loads. Then there are tow tunes that are designed for the heavier loads, in fact, these tunes actually shine with heavier loads.

I have to have my vehicle tuned(for obvious reasons) and I have no problem with towing ~16k worth of horse flesh and related equipment. It all depends on the type of tow tune you have.

 

Well the Edge tuner I bought off of my friend came out of his truck and went straight in mine with no problem. I called Edge beforehand to make sure that it worked and he said that their only tuner that can't be moved from vehicle to vehicle is the Evolution. So that's why I was curious.

Ok, so it just depends on what "type" of tow tune you have? Because that's the only thing really keeping him from tuning is the fact that we have both heard from local friends and a mechanic at the dealership who's great on 6.0's that tuned 6.0's and towing just don't go together. But I'll definately let him know.

Do you know of the cheapest place to find an X3? The only sites I know of is Dfuser and Innovative and XDP. If you know of any others I'd be glad to know.

 

I see now. I thought you were talking about tuning two vehicles at the same time with one tuner. You can unlock an X3 and use it on another vehicle, but you can't tune more then one vehicle at a time with this or any other unit with the exception of the Phalanx at this point in time.


I'm tuned and I tow quite a bit of the time. Like I said up to 16k. Some tunes do have their weight limit and their weight limit isn't the same as the truck's limit, that's true. But to make that blanket statement that you can't tow tuned, I'm sorry, but there are too many people(myself included) that run custom tunes towing and haven't had any issues. I'm going on 3 yrs with custom tunes towing, I would think that would be enough for a gremlin or two to show up.

Unless they are talking about canned tunes and shouldn't be towing. I could make an argument for that, but not for custom tunes. Custom tunes you can do so much that would help towing, but may not even add hp/tq over stock or may in fact, detune the power of the 6.0(some have done this, but not alot). So I don't subscribe to that blanket statement.

Alway try ebay or someone on here trying to sell. Might try to find a promo code for some places on the 'net. Never know.

 

You can even try craigslist...that way you can meet and discuss with the seller. Also check out Matt @ Gearhaed Auto Performance for smooth tunes.

 

Hey Tex, I just notice you're running the Spartan Phalanx. How do you like that? I was talking to a guy today from Spartan about their tuning options. He said that one of their options is to buy their "tuner" and you get the DashDAQ and load their tunes on a SD card and put it in the DashDAQ and load it onto the truck that way. Does that sound right? But if that's the case, couldn't you get the DashDAQ and buy anyone's custom tunes and load them that way?

 

Is there anything wrong with the SCT Livewire custom tuner? Every one mentions the SCT X3 but not the Livewire... Are they not the same thing except the livewire can display info while running?

 

That's what this thread was originally started for. I think we concluded that the SF3 is more like the Livewire because it comes with "canned" tunes and stores 3 custom tunes. But as Tex mentioned, the main downfall to the Livewire is that the module itself's power isn't very great and tends to die out. So what I have concluded from this thread mainly, is that based on the few extra parameters that the Livewire can monitor, it's not worth the price difference when you can get the X3 or SF3 and a digital monitoring system and not come out too much worse...if not better.

 

That's about right in the broad strokes.


Unfortunately no. The tunes that work on the SCT devices are in one file extension and the Phalanx is in another. They do have more people doing the tunes then just Matt, but it isn't as many as the SCT has. That's probably the biggest con to it if you like having different tunes from different people(which to a degree makes sense).