I read some where that the 351M is basically a poor engine and is is the weakest in the cleveland family. Is this true? If so why?

 

Who told you that the 351 Modified was a bad engine? In Fact, the modified is vertially identical to the 400.

If you ask me, its the best of the 351's!

 

The 351M is a good engine that can make some really awesome horsepower. I have a stock 351M in my 77 F150 4x4 and I can sqeal the tires through 3 gears. And that is bone stock!!!!!! If you really want some power put a bigger cam and headers on it and look out because you will really have some power.

 

It is my understanding that the 351M and 400M blocks are the same, so it's pretty easy to convert the 351M to a 400M, if necessary.

The people I've talked to that do not like the Midland engines, don't like them begause they are larger and heavier that the 351C and 351W motors.

As I recall, Ford wanted to make the 351C into a larger motor so they added 1" of deck height to the block. They also increased the size of the main bearings from the small Cleveland size to the larger Windsor diameter. This new block became the Modified or Midland block. This 1" of extra deck height made stroking the motor to 400 inches very simple. It also added over an inch to the width and height of the motor, and several pounds of additional iron.

Ford carried almost everything else over from the Cleveland, including those fabulous canted-valve heads. All Midlands came with the prefered 2-barrel heads, which have smaller ports and slightly smaller valves than the 4-barrel heads. If you saw the 2-bbl and 4-bbl heads side by side you'd understand that you don't need the 4-bbl heads unless you're going to run consistently above 5,000 RPM.

Where most of the mis-information about the enginges comes from is if you want to build a 351 for a Mustang or other Ford car, the Midland is a poor choice because it's bigger and heavier than the other 351s. So if you talk to car people, they'll say the Midlands are junk. If you talk to truck people, they love the Midlands because of their torque and horsepower potential.

I just bought a '71 F-350 with a broken 390. The previous owner was attempting to cram a 460 into it but never completed the conversion. I removed the 460 and will install the 400M I have in a '77 Ranchero. That 400M has a lot of torque and runs very smooth. I will replace the 2-bbl carb and manifold with a 4-bbl set so I can get some additional power.

Bruce

 

Hi Bruce, I think you might benefit from reading
www.wrljet.com/engines/cleveland.html.
The M does not stand for midland. The original M was for Michigan, where the first blocks were cast, and later refered to as Modified. This could clear up some things for you.

John

 

Can you answer this one? What the heck does "FE" and "FT" stand for. I have heard that "FT" is short for "Ford Truck" since it was used mostly in the heavy duty rigs and motorhomes, but I can not come up with anything that the "E" might be short for.

 

Ford Edsel, Edsel was one of Henry Fords sons. Sorry no help on FT

 

Absolutely NOT. Bruce, you're right on.

The 351 Windsor is a 302 with a taller deck. The 351 Cleveland was a special program that Ford used for their cars, especially high-horsepower cars such as the Thunderbird and the LTD. The 351 Modified has the advantage of the big-block 400 M that is built on the same platform. Basically, it's a de-stroked 400. Ford did this to compensate for fuel economy issues in the mid- to late-'70's.

The 351 M is probably one of the best light truck engines. It has been in production from 1977 (I think, factory dates are unclear) to 1996! There is a plethora of buildup parts for it, as well as it's sister-engine, the 400 M. Don't junk that engine, and don't listen to the car guys, they're looking for a light engine such as the W or C. You have alot of HP potential.

Have fun,

Avatar

 

>I read some where that the 351M
>is basically a poor engine and
>is is the weakest in the
>cleveland family. Is this true?
>If so why?

I have a 78 f-250 that I was able to push into the upper 9's lower 10's in the quarter off of a mildly modified 400m. If I was to get serious and spend more than 2500 on the motor, I could easily get it into the 6-700 hp. range with God only know what torque rating...(I am running a modified offenhauser 351-c dual quad intake with two 650's and a mild cam (272 grind equiv.), headers, and that is about it. The valve size alone in the heads are as large as you can slap into the head without interference or serious mod's. The addition of 7/16 roller rocker studs and girdles hold it all together to allow rpm ranges into the 7000's... All together my 400 as it sits has an output of 525 hp., 585 ft/lbs torque. If you've got the money, you can build a real hellraiser for around five grand. The added strength within the block makes it a real hardcore block--no 400 chev will ever run with it at the same output range. (that block is still designed off of the small-block chev platform, no added reinforcements. Only the four-bolt mains give them any real strength at all.) The 351-m is very similar to the 400 and can be built just as well. One nice thing about the modified platform is you can bolt on cleveland 4-bbl heads and intakes with the addition of spacer plates available by moroso, offenhauser, and a few other high perf vendors. Hope this answers your question...

 

This is kinda funny - on a 351M thread we're talking about FEs & FTs.

To the best of my knowledge, FE does stand for Ford Edsel since the Edsel was the car of Ford's future when the 352 engine was designed.

FT stands for Ford Truck. These engines only came in the LARGE Ford trucks - read that as commercial trucks over 1-ton. If you see an old U-Haul at a wrecking yard it probable has an FT in it.

My understanding of the main differences between the two engines is that the FTs all came with steel cranks, they had additional webbing around the main journals for added strength, they had humungous main bearing caps. I was at a machine show 3-years ago to get some head work done on my 400M when I saw two engines on engine stands. They were being reassembled and were upside down with the oil pans off. I thought they were FEs but I never saw main caps like those. The machinist told me they were just ordinary FT engines due to go back into 3 or 4-ton delivery trucks.

If you get a chance, try to see one - they're amazing.

Ford added the extra beef to the bottom of the block to give many years of faithful service while hauling around heavy loads.

Hope this helps.

Bruce

 

Everything I've seen states production ended in 1982 for all M blocks.

 

Actually, i put 351C 4v heads on my 79 351M, and was able to bolt an Edelbrock intake for a 351M right in(after a little port massaging just cause).

 

The 351M is a good block. The 351M/400 uses thinner wall block so isn't as strong after an overbore, and more prone to overheating.
351M/400 blocks cast at Michigan Casting Center before March 1977 had casting problems, resulting in cracking of the water jacket inside the lifter gallery. Blocks with date codes of 7C01 or later should be OK.
hope this helps

 

I have also heard that 351Ms have a bottom end lubrication problem if they have had galley modifications? Is this true? If so does the 400M have the same main bearing setup?

 

I read the following from a High Performance Ford parts enterchange mag.. It said, "The 351c/351m/400m engine family suffers from inadequate oiling because the system feeds the camshaft bearings first, then the main bearings, which result in a oil starved #4 & #5 main and rod bearing." The solution advised was to route a oil line from the front of the block where the sending unit is to the back of the block to where there is a oil gallery plug. I havent heard of anybody doing this, but might try it.