I pulled my engine with the intention of replacing all seals and replacing anything that was out of spec. I can only justify spending money on anything that is out of spec. With that in mind (that I have no additional money), I hope you guys will give me advice on the following:

The CAM lobes and Lifter bases are out of spec.
The timing chain is also stretched out of spec.
The timing gears don't look great, so I'm going to replace those too.
Pushrods look amazingy great.
The rocker arms look great too.

Conanski and Blurry94, have mentioned Comp 35-255 CAMs for MAP trucks because they apparently work with the stock setup.

Comp mentions that to get there Cam warranty, I have to get their Lifters and Springs. I need lifters anyhow, and theirs are nice, so no biggie. The springs they recommend with that CAM are 942 or 972 springs. Both of which have a damper.

-Does anyone happen to know if that spring requires head machining for the damper to fit? I'm going to measure the seat later today, but if anyone happens to know, that would be great. If not, I'll post what I think later.
-Will the increased pressure of their spring over stock cause failure of stock rocker arms (The existing rocker arms look great and I really can't afford nice new rocker arms)?
Stock:
190 to 210 @ 1.20"
Comp 942:
284 @ 1.20"

The biggest question of all:
Does anyone think this CAM will cause enough change to the setup to no longer pass California emissions?
If you guys think so, I guess I'll just order stock replacement from Ford and hate California even more.


-----------------------
1990 F150 (MAP)
XLT Lariat with normal bed, extended cab
351W
E4OD
The only thing non-stock is a rather nice set of Bassani headers and increased stainless exhaust all the way back. Well, an aftermarket 160 Amp alternator with smaller pulley, if that counts.
The filter is K&N, but the filter box and hoses are all still stock.

 

No the heads won't need maching for the damper, but you will need the Comp locks and retainers to get the right installed height and preload. I'm gonna say that cam will be fine at the inspection station too, my 5.8 easily passed our sniffer tests with the Crane 444232 in it for example.

 

Thank you very much for the reply Conanski.

When I measured, it looked like the spring seat needed just under .05 lowering. The reason for this wasn't the damper as I thought. The inside diameter spec on the new springs cleared the "center nub" that held the stock springs with a little room to spare. The outside diameter of the spring seat in the head appeared at first to be correct. It had the correct diameter, but I guess when my head was poured, the material was slightely to the exhaust side, so the original machining of the spring seat had a greater radius on the exhaust side, leaving not enough radius on the intake side. It isn't like the material just drops off at the edge of the current seat, it tapers away, so I might need less than .05 to get the correct radius on the intake side.

It's good to know that other CAM still passed smog. I appreciate the opinion that this CAM night pass too. I'm going to risk it.

Do you think the pistons will require machining? I believe the overall valve travel increase is .0336. I calculated it this way:

Stock intake lobe lift: .2780
Comp Lobe Lift: .299
Difference: .021
Rocker Ratio: 1.6
Multiply: .0336 <-- Answer, I think

Is 1.6 the correct stock rocker ratio? That is the ratio for the Comp 1431 rocker that is recommended with that CAM.

I took a much closer look at the fulcrum seat in my rockers and the oil channel in the fulcrum wore a ridge into the rocker, so I'm replacing them after all.

Is the recommended 1431 rocker arm from Comp good? I'm sure there are better ones for tons of money, but thinking on the less expensive side.

 

Stock cam in that motor will have a bit less lift than that more like 0.260" but that doesn't really matter, 1.6 is the correct stock rocker ratio and total valve lift is still well under 1/2" with the comp cam so there no reason for concern about P-V clearance, the cam in my 5.0 produces 0.512 lift with no clearance problems. Those comp rockers are very good, most guys go for the full roller but you don't have to be like everybody else.

 

I'm learning between these posts. It turns out I have pedestal rockers and I don't think I'd like to have the shop grind down the pedestals in favor of studs.

E7TE heads.

Does anyone have any recommendations for pedestal rockers? The only things I can find are either really expensive aluminum or stamped steel without rollers. Unless someone knows of something in the middle I'll just go with the Comp stamped steel 1235 without the roller.

The stock fulcrum has a "stand" so that the rocker doesn't ride on and grind the pedestal. The Comp documentation at least doesn't show what comes with their pedestal rockers. Does it have a similar stand or does it ride on the pedestal itself? With the pivot ***** in place of the fulcrum, I can't picture it. Does it have something to do with all the upward pressure? I would think there would still be some contact.
Does the Comp unit with the pivot ball need a different kind of stud?

 

The pedestal (and stand) also align the rocker arm so the pushrod pushes correctly on the arm, and onto the valve. If your pedestal has worn out, it looks like Comp Cams also sells a replacement set:

COMP Cams: Pedestal Mount Rocker Arms; (16) Replacement Pedestal

The picture of the Comp 1235 rockers look like one of their many stud-mount models, with that semi-ball bearing. I'm thinking they're using the same picture from one of their other products. And yes, with stud mounted rockers, the upward pressure pushes the arm against the bearing, but it needs other means of keeping the arm aligned, like with a guide plate for the pushrod, or a rail on the tip of the arm that is aligned by the valve stem.

 

Here are the ones that came as stock items on '93-'95 Cobras:

Crane Energizer Pedestal Mount Roller Rocker Arms Rocker Arms - Energizer - Pedestal Mount - Full Roller - Long Slot - Standard Body - Aluminum - Natural - Set of 16 | StreetPerformance.com

They cost $215 from this supplier. I checked Summit but they're unavailable from them. However Summit sells the Ford Racing parts which are rebranded Crane products (note the markings on the parts), for $260. Here is the link:

Ford Racing M-6564-A50 - Ford Racing Pedestal Mount Roller Rocker Arms - Overview - SummitRacing.com

These rocker arms are 1.7 ratio vs. 1.6 stock, and come with pedestals and attaching bolts, so should require no other parts. The exception is if the heads have been excessively resurfaced, shims will need to be added.

Keep in mind that these rocker arms were used on stock high performance engines so are strict bolt ons. If you wish to read a good article about roller rocker arms, check this magazine article:

Roller Rocker Arms - 5.0 Mustang & Super Fords Magazine

 

I was going to suggest those, but cfo5ter might think they were expensive. That price looks to be about the same as I paid for mine some 15 years ago. Amazing!

 

Are you sure? I have those springs (942-16) and it looked like the intake retainers would work. Of course that would leave him 8 retainers short, but the retainers are about $50, so I thought this might be worth discussing. Wouldn't a set of shims get him to installed height? Are they far enough off to affect the preload that much?

At the onset, the OP stated he only wanted to replace those parts that were out of spec. Then "the rocker arms look great too". Just because Comp recommends a rocker doesn't mean it's necessary. The advantages of the rockers discussed ranges from slightly stronger to a small gain in reliability and increased HP due to decreased friction. ( Other than the 1.7's).

If the replacement rockers are going to be 1.6 ratio, going back with the original is a place to save some cash. The cam is just a tad over stock anyway. I would think the original springs would work in a pinch if they were in good shape. I'm not saying this is the best way to go, but something to consider when the OP contains "I can only justify spending money on anything that is out of spec."

Something to chew on......

 

Thank you very much for the link to the rocker information Beanscoot. I learned a bunch. Just to restate for anyone searching this forum in the future:

The thing I was calling a pedestal in my last post is a boss.
In the stock rockers, the pedestal is the fulcrum itself, they are one piece. A sled type fulcrum with a squared pedestal that pokes through the rocker to rest on the guide on the boss.
I didn't want to grind down my boss to accomodate stud rockers.

Now I know there are studs from both Comp and Crane that go into the pedestal boss. It looks like the Crane ones require the funky rod guides, where Comp states in their recommended rocker that rod guides can't be used.

Then I found this:
Crane WG3070 Crane Cams Blue Racer Aluminum Roller Rockers

What do you guys think?

I may have been exaggerating on how cheap I am. I wanted to deter those like my brother in law that would recommend 1000 pound springs with huge lobe cams and all the fixings. You guys turned out to be much more down to earth. Thanks.

Regarding my rockers, it turns out I was smoking crack in that first post. The spot in the rocker where the fulcrum rides is bad. That's why I'm looking for rockers after all. I really like the idea of the roller fulcrum becuase of the heat it supposedly saves. I would have liked steel just as well as aluminum, but that doesn't appear to be an option today.

There is a setup from Crane that is a pedestal with needle bearing fulcrum that you place inside a stock rocker. Has anyone had any experience with that?

Thank you all,
Chuck

 

I don't get anything when I click on that link, but I think I know which rockers those are and they are alright. I would like to be able to see for sure though.

I've seen the needle bearing fulcrum that you place inside the stock rocker arm and it's never made a lot of sense to me. I don't know anybody who has used them, and it's probably one of the the worst ideas I've ever seen. If one side of the stock rocker is worn, so is the other. If anything, I think the fulcrum wears less than the stamped steel arm and it's not going to fail from being too thin. So you would need to have stock arms in good shape to even consider those. I guess if you did, they would be alright, because they would eliminate the wear point on ONE side of the stock rocker. That's the other thing, how much wear have the tips of them seen as well? If you were going to go the extreme cheap route, you could probably get into a new set of stock rockers for about $40 + shipping if you can find them on eBay. Or I might consider letting mine go for that shipping included.

I think your best bet for saving a few dollars is a low mileage used set of Ford Racing roller rockers or maybe some Scorpions. I got mine for $125 shipped and that's about what you can get them for in 1.6 or 1.7:1 from a place I know. If you're interested PM me and I'll see if I can link you to a set.

The stud conversions never appealed to me much either, and I'm especially leery of the one that doesn't have pushrod guide plates. What is keeping the rocker from twisting? Then if you use the one with guide plates, you need hardened pushrods, so by the time you buy the pushrods, the conversion kit, and the rockers, you could have just bought a set of pedestals and called it a day. Financially, I don't see it being much cheaper but you do gain the adjustability you don't have with the pedestals. You will be close to the price of a set of new adjustable pedestals, though. I think those are going to be around $240 new.

The adjustability is more important with solid lifters. It's nice for any cam, but not necessary for a mild hydraulic IMO.

If you buy the 942-16 springs and 747-16 or 768-16 retainers you'll be out over $110. PM me and I'll give you an option to go a different route that'll save over half that.

 

I thought the same thing and stole the intake retainers off a spare set of heads I have to install the 986-16 dual spring set I bought for my cam. But even those retainers produced way to much preload, the springs were actually very difficult to install and although I didn't measure the installed height I'm pretty sure it was less than the 1.75" spec.. there seemed to be an awefull lot of valve stem stickiing up above the retainers. Maybe my heads have some oddball valves in them or the inner spring was binding on the valve stem seals but all I know is installed that way the motor were bending pushrods when just cranked over by hand so I said the hell with it and put the stock springs back on. I would like to know exactly what the problem was but I was out of patience at the time and knowing that many 5.0 owners before me have installed Ford Alphabet cams in otherwise stock motors without issue I knew the stock spring were safe.

My problem was that preload was too high with the stock retainers, so either the seats had to be cut down or different retainers installed. Bottom line is the stock springs appear to be sufficient for a relatively mild cam like this, and even though they produce quite a bit less spring pressure than the Comp springs on both the seat and at lift that doesn't appear to affect engine operation, my 5.0 for example produces no mechanical valvetrain noise at all and makes power to 5000rpm.

 

I just threw a dial caliper up next to a E7TE intake. I couldn't get at it real good so my measurement might be off a hair. I got 1.726. For some reason it didn't occur to me it would be off that way. I wonder what it would cost to have the spring pockets cut a hair deeper? Probably more than the retainers or the same. Or off-set keepers? Haven't priced them either.

I think the way around it may be using Eddy shure seats. They're designed for the stock retainers and are spec'd for the Performer cam which has similar lift to the Comp we're talking about here. They make 2 different sets one for rotator and one for non- rotator. I have a set of them but haven't messed with them. I'm thinking you would have to do the same thing and use all intakes with the non-rotator or all exhaust with the rotator or buy both sets because the springs are all the same height.

I guess making a split set would be too easy.

Thankfully I found some retainers that fit the 942-16 springs I have, I just hope they have the right valve lock height.

 

Hmm... Maybe I was right after all. The 942-16 installed height is 1.70, a .025 shim would put it right there. ( Assuming my measurement is accurate.)

 

Comparing the stock springs to the Comp 942

Stock: 90lbs at 1.75" and 210lbs at 1.20"
Comp: 115lbs at 1.75" and 284lbs at 1.20".

So yes the comp cams springs have a little higher rate but considering the powerband with the cam in question is 0-4500rpm there's no danger of valve float, and since valve lift is well under 0.500" there's no worry about coil bind either.. with either spring set.