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re torque head bolts

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Old Dec 26, 2009 | 03:01 AM
  #1  
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re torque head bolts

My 03 super duty has been blowing white smoke for at least one month,needless to say it's out of service until repaired.My son is the bolt twister,I'm the observer,and tool fetcher.
We did a egr cooler bypass,thought that would take care of the problem because we found it was leaking.Also unplugged the egr valve before turning switch back on.Still blowing white smoke.
As I write,we're preparing to start taking the parts back off the engine and try to wrestle the heads off for gaskets and new bolts.Seems a lot of work and expense to right a wrong that Ford should have fixed long ago.
I know this is a dummmm question,but if the cause of the head gasket leaking is stretched head bolts,and the gasket is only leaking,not blown,(the smoke is not full time).Why not " re torque head bolts" and see if that would stop the leaking?At least see if there is any discrepancy in the torque value on different bolts.
One other question.Has anyone tried disconnecting the exhaust manifolds and starting engine to see which side smokes?
Oh well,thx for letting me ask dumb questions,learning as we go.
 
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Old Dec 26, 2009 | 06:39 AM
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Now I'll ask some dumb ? But since you have already started to take the motor apart some of the following cannot be done but I'll post it anyway.

White smoke is normally caused by a cold motor or leaking coolant.

Is the motor getting up to temperature? Your T-stat could be stuck partially open or full open, not allowing the motor to warm up.

Not sure how you did the EGR cooler bypass but you may want to park the truck with the nose down hill, pull the EGR valve and look for coolant in the EGR valve hole in the intake manifold. You may have leak on the bypass. Is the EGR cooler still installed?

You can check to see if it is HGs by going online an purchasing an Exhaust Gas Tester for about $50. It samples the air in the coolant tank and checks for exhaust gas. IMO it is the only way to make sure you really do have an HG problem. It turns the blue fluid green if exhaust gas is present. I did and discovered my HG problem early. I replaced the OEM head bolts with ARP studs and did not change the HGs. No more exhaust gas in the coolant.

Concerning your ? about re-tightening TTY head bolts. Never reuse a torque-to-yield bolt. Because the bolts are designed to stretch once, stretching them a second time may stretch them beyond their yield point causing the bolt to break. They are one-time use bolts, so throw the old bolts away and buy new ones.


DSMMH
 
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Old Dec 26, 2009 | 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by DSMMH
Now I'll ask some dumb ? But since you have already started to take the motor apart some of the following cannot be done but I'll post it anyway.

White smoke is normally caused by a cold motor or leaking coolant.

Is the motor getting up to temperature? Your T-stat could be stuck partially open or full open, not allowing the motor to warm up.

Not sure how you did the EGR cooler bypass but you may want to park the truck with the nose down hill, pull the EGR valve and look for coolant in the EGR valve hole in the intake manifold. You may have leak on the bypass. Is the EGR cooler still installed?

You can check to see if it is HGs by going online an purchasing an Exhaust Gas Tester for about $50. It samples the air in the coolant tank and checks for exhaust gas. IMO it is the only way to make sure you really do have an HG problem. It turns the blue fluid green if exhaust gas is present. I did and discovered my HG problem early. I replaced the OEM head bolts with ARP studs and did not change the HGs. No more exhaust gas in the coolant.

Concerning your ? about re-tightening TTY head bolts. Never reuse a torque-to-yield bolt. Because the bolts are designed to stretch once, stretching them a second time may stretch them beyond their yield point causing the bolt to break. They are one-time use bolts, so throw the old bolts away and buy new ones.


DSMMH
And if you are going to the trouble of replacing them then you might as well install ARPs.
 
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Old Dec 26, 2009 | 10:36 AM
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Exhaust Gas Tester. What is it and where can one get one of these. What is the proper name for this tester or is there a drand name to look for?
 
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Old Dec 26, 2009 | 11:37 AM
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Angus these guys have very good points,start with figureing out why it is smoking white.When the heads pop a 6.0 pukes coolant out the bottle not the exhaust.Head viking try the search I posted two types in a post a while ago,any good auto parts store will have a tester or the test strips.
 
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Old Dec 26, 2009 | 11:59 AM
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in all the turcks I have repaired ive never seen headgaskets cause white smoke. white smoke is going to come from either injectors, low fuel pressure, or egr coolers, or any thing else that will cause an underfuel condition. Also you could have a turbo seal leaking that smoke is almost always a blue/white color though. O and sence its an o3 truck did you think to look at the ICP pid values? icp on an early build can also cause white smoke from underfueling

Head gaskets cause this engine to puke out the degas tank. just an fyi.
Perhaps you should find someone with some good information befor we go and blame Ford for all you problems.
 
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Old Dec 26, 2009 | 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by cheezit
Perhaps you should find someone with some good information befor we go and blame Ford for all you problems.


Well said, cheezit.
 
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Old Dec 27, 2009 | 05:09 AM
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HG

Thx for the help on my post.
Didn't get to do much on the truck yesterday do to other pressing problems.Finally did get the exhaust taken loose from exhaust manifolds in the late afternoon.Passenger side leaked about 1/4 pint dirty antifreeze when disconnected,went ahead and clicked the starter over a few times to make sure it wasn't hydro locked,then started it up.All the white smoke seems to be coming from the passenger side head.
DSMMH,Your post about replacing the bolts without removing the heads was what motivated me to post in the first place,then you were the first one to answer my post,so I'll answer ur ? first.
(Is the motor getting up to temperature? Your T-stat could be stuck partially open or full open, not allowing the motor to warm up)Doesn't seem to have problem,measured temp on both sides of the thermostat and getting reading of around 190* after thermostate opens.
Not sure how you did the EGR cooler bypass but you may want to park the truck with the nose down hill, pull the EGR valve and look for coolant in the EGR valve hole in the intake manifold. You may have leak on the bypass. Is the EGR cooler still installed?The way I did it was to remove the cooler and weld both ends completely closed then checked for leaks,then connected the coolant hose back up so coolant could still flow through it and reinstalled.
Plann to have a closer look at the intake when we remove it Looked at the cut away view of the EGR valve,but still can't figure out if it is in the water jacket or not.
Other than leaking around EGR valve,the only other place I know to look would be the injector seats or seeping head gasket.
Like I said trying to learn as I go.
Any other suggestions ?
Oh buy the way,where did you order the ARP studs?
Thx Angus
 
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Old Dec 27, 2009 | 08:30 AM
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with the manifolds off were you able to isolate wich cyclinder was blowing smoke?
once again this engine is not like a gasser. Failed head gaskets should not make it blow smoke only push coolant casuing it to puke. I know it seems odd but its the truth. I would hate for you to spend the time and money to do head studs and not fix the isssue.
 
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Old Dec 27, 2009 | 10:40 AM
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In my post this morning,(Finally did get the exhaust taken loose from exhaust manifolds.)Didn't take the manifolds loose.
Only other place I know to look would be the injector seats or seeping head gasket.
It dose puke,and getting water in the cylinders on left bank.
If not HG where would look next?
 
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Old Dec 27, 2009 | 12:33 PM
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ok this is going to sound stupid but how do you know its water this is what Im driving at. White smoke does not always equate to water. Injector cups are out of the picture all together. When a cup goes bad you will leak fuel in to the cooling system and the coolant will look like orange marmalade.
if its still puking after the egr repair I have to ask how you did the delete or what kit was used. Im sorry If i missed that in a post already. If you pluged the cooler did you test the welds?
have you tried to pressure test the cooling system and do a mist test?
mist test in this case= remove glowplugs and see if you get mist from the cyclinders when cranking engine over while cooling system is under pressure?
 
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Old Dec 27, 2009 | 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by cheezit
When a cup goes bad you will leak fuel in to the cooling system and the coolant will look like orange marmalade.
If you are flushing your coolant you get it clear then it looks like redish/orange marmalade, how do you check to see if yu have a bad cup and how expensive are they to replace? Ex still runs good and there is now noticable anything with it.
Tech at the dealership said it was just coolant in the system. Does not smell like diesel, will freeze.
Cheezit, looking forward to hearing what you have to say.

Don't mean to hyjack.
 
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Old Dec 27, 2009 | 01:08 PM
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wow. this is a tough one to explain. but here ya go. there are 2 ways to test.
1. drain cooling system and remove all 8 injectors. apply 8-10 psi air to drained cooling system and apply a soapy mix to the injector cups. then look for bubbles.

2. method 2 remove the T-stat and ind inject air in to the fuel rails at each head one at a time. with the t-stat removed look for bubbles of air comming up at the hole in the front cover were the t-stat was (you will need to fill the cooling system back with water from the t-stat hole). this method will isolate wich head.

THE COST.... well this is ugly. with stainless cups it is advised not to repair the head on the engine (it can be done however at your own risk). Replace the effective cup. cups are cheep maybe $15-20 ea. if that.
Now they also like to crack the head between the the fuel and coolant ports internally and that cant be seen or repaired. also they can crack right above the injector cup. either of the later will result in the need of the head to be replaced. Now we have found more then one set we put cups in only to find out that the head itself was also bad.
My advise here is if you try the cup route replace all 4 on the bank.

I foyu dont get anypart of that let me know whats not clear and all go in to more detail for you fine folks
 
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Old Dec 27, 2009 | 01:10 PM
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(but how do you know its water this is what I'm driving at)Did the taste test.
(how you did the delete or what kit was used.) The way I did it was to remove the cooler and weld both ends completely closed then checked for leaks,then connected the coolant hose back up so coolant could still flow through it and reinstalled)
(have you tried to pressure test the cooling system and do a mist test? ) Nope,thought about removing them and rotating motor to make sure it wasn't hydro locked,but decided to keep dissembling to get head off.
Bout ready to remove valve cover now.
 
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Old Dec 27, 2009 | 01:24 PM
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best of luck to you on the venture. I hope it fixes the truck.
 
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