If I needed to replace the V10 in my Excursion I would figure out how to remove without lifting the body off due to the fact that I don't have the lift required to to so. I think I have read here for the V10 to be lifted out the intake must be removed which UrbanXX has pointed out.

Good post UrbanXX, reps to you.

 

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Wow - that was a very informative post. Your "x was done"......Can we get "when my X was done" translated into English, so we know
1) WHAT went wrong with WHAT KIND of motor ?
2) WHY it went wrong ?
3) WHAT can we learn so as it dosn't happen to the next guy ?

 

[quote=idahof350;8213872]I bought my Excursion running bit with a nasty rod knock. Modular engines are prone to rod bearing issues when the oil level gets low.quote]

H E L P - THIS GUY APPARENTLY HAD TO REMOVE HIS MOTOR BECAUSE OF 'BAD ROD BEARINGS'.

WE NEED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT 'BAD ROD BEARINGS' in the V-10. CANT SOMEONE HELP ?

Wish one of these guys who reported about their "FORD V-10 BEING DONE" would help me out. I am so afraid now my rod bearings will fall out. Perhaps he can explain his post about "being done". Was the motor "done" ? If so, what part was "done". And WHY> Or maybe the stereo ? If so, what PART of the stereo was "done" ?

So - who can help out with the questions I asked about "bad rod bearings"?

One fellow reported in answer to my questions, that "we did as good a visual inspection as possible". That's scary ? Does that mean the Ford V-10 is designed in such a way that it is not possible to un-bolt a conecting rod "cap" cap, and

1) look at the insert's surface, and

2) get a micrometer around the crankshaft journal?

And the guy who reported his FORD V-10 was "done". We need to know more about how Ford V-10 motors get "done". Was it his rod bearings that "got done"...?

Is it really true that if you let your engine oil run low, that you can ruin a Ford engine of the "modular" design ?

That is amazing ? We need to know more about that. And is that true just of "modular" Fords ? or can you ruin ANY motor by running it low on oil...?

One fellow contributing to that "thread", who saw my questions in my several posts in that "thread", suggested I look up in the "wicki" about Ford modular engines, as if answer to my earlier series of questions were in there.

I did. Couldnt find ANYTHING in Wiki about "rod bearings being done", or "rod bearings being bad", and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the design of the engine, so I still dont know why "as good a visual inspection as possible" wont allow for "miking" the crank-shaft to see if it is o.k.

Surely some of these guys can go back over this 'thread", review my questions, and help us out. We sure dont want OUR V-10's to "be done"......especially if they are SO "done" that we have to remove the entire motor....!

 

rant much?

 

 

6686L, I am 100% behind your line of questioning. I too would like greater detail, but I suspect what the guy means by "done" is "worked on and paid for".

It is unlikely we will get answers to your questions because many people do not have the basic understanding of what kind of mechanical work was required or done. Their mechanics know this, so they charge them 3 times the price of the job to save them from having to think or learn.

Maybe in some worlds, "rod bearings done" means a complete engine rebuild. Certainly someone who doesn't know their A####### from their elbow around an engine is not going to 'fess up on how badly they've just been screwed.

There's two kinds of people on these boards - those who are here for the social aspect and those that are here for the technical aspect. Certainly the questions of the latter are much too complicated for the former.

 

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Scott is absolutely right. Who cares about accurate technical information, anyway.

 

Just my humble opinion, but I feel there is a third contingent. Those that are here for both.

I like to de-stress a bit though the socializing that the board offers, AND to also learn (and sometimes provide input to help others). So for me, while I don't fit into either catagory you've posted, "the latter usually isn't too complicated for the former" doesn't apply to all of us.

Here's a question for all you guys who have done rod bearings. Many, many, MANY years ago I had a "rod knock" develop after I had a thermostat stick and I popped a head gasket on a 3.8L powered Cougar. The guy who pulled the heads and replaced the head gasket for me said he could drop the oil pan and access the bearings from below, prep the crank journals for replacement bearings, and replace the bearings. But he could not 100% guarantee that after doing so, the engine still wouldn't have to be pulled because the replacement bearings might not be the proper spec on one or more journals because he had no way to measure to see if any of the crank journals had been compromised.

How likely is that to occur, generally speaking? You know, using ball-park guestimates like, "it's rare" or, "it's not uncommon", or "I find more times than not..." etc.

Stewart

 

Hi again Stewart:
First, thank you again for your gracious and courteous "private" message, suggesting I am being way too tough on some of you guys. You are right. I was born mean, nasty, & ugly, and time obviously is making it worse !

In my younger years, had I been standing alongside you when this guy CLAIMING to be a mechanic, would have told you such bs, you would have had to restrain me to keep me from "decking" the jerk.

Be assured checking rod bearing fit is not rocket science, nor have the laws of physics or basic responsible shop technique changed in the last 50 or even 100 years. Running clearances are running clearances. For a given size crank-pin, we can say GENERALLY speaking, at a thousdnth of an in. per in. of journal diam. (of course you should rely on the shop/service manual for the specific application).

'dropping' the oil pan of most motors can be done easily - true, on some, suspension parts have to be disconnected, but again, not exactly rocket science.

Once the pan is off and the rod "caps" removed, an even half-way competent and responsible mechanic worthy of the name puts his "mike" on the crank-pins, and checks them against the shop manual to make sure it is within "service limits".

Once he knows the size the crank-pin or "throw" is worn (and assuming it isn't damaged) he knows what size "insert" rod bearing "shell" should be in there. These bearing "insert-shells" are made in various standard and "over-size" dimensions to compensate for wear.

These days, with modern ful-flow oil filters, induction air filters, and reasonable oil changes, I would be surprised to find measurable wear under 100,000 miles. But if there was wear, again, a responsible mechanic would "get it right" the first time, with the proper over-size bearing shell.

So - I am infuriated that you were told such a crock of malarky. Again, few things enrage me more than nice people like you being taken advantage of, by smart alecs who dont care whether they know what they are talking about.

 

Long story short in my 15 years in a dealership when a rod bearing fails due to multiple reasons the crankshaft is usually scored that would require machining at worst or polishing at best to remove the scoring. But you need to mic the crank to ck for taper (front to back wear) and out of round making 3 or more measurements around the same circle after polishing . All of this takes a considerable amount of time/money and is very difficult to do upside down in a vehicle. Thats why we usually replace the crankshaft and all bearings if there are low miles on the engine and it is feasible to do so financially or replace the engine. Usually this route is cheaper and returns the vehicle to the customer much sooner.

 

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good post, joe. Sounds like you've 'been there' once or twice !

You raise an interesting point. "machining at worst or polishing" ? Damn, you must be almost as old as me ! Is that possible ? And if so, why arent you stuffed and mounted in a musem ?

Seriously, folks, rod bearing failure was common-enough in the old days (oh, say prior to the 2nd World War) that many shops had portable crank-shaft " crank-journal pin" grinding equipment that when a bearing scored a journal, you could actually have someone grind it down to an under-size, IN the car !

That pretty much died with the introduction of the "precision-steel backed INSERT type connecting rod", and hardened crank journals..starting in the early 1930's with the more expensive cars, and after the war with the cheapo mass production cars.

As you know, absent GROSS abuse, rod bearing failure in modern production (meaning post 1930's motors) is pretty much history. What we DONT know yet, cause these kids can not or will not tell us, is HOW they abused their motors sufficiently to require an engine "pull"...!

 

So the measurement of the pins (he called them journals) can be done with with the engine still in the vehicle. Hmmm, interesting. This guy that did the work was working doing side work out of his home garage, but he came "highly" recommended because he worked at a local dealership and really "knew his stuff", plus he worked with a NASCAR crew for a couple years doing engine tear-downs and rebuilds.

I remember him saying if it needed an oversized bearing, he couldn't get the proper measurement without pulling the engine. Maybe because it might be out of round and couldn't be measured easily like Joetech posted? I guess maybe he fed me a load of hooey.

That was almost 20 years ago.

All these years I thought that was "standard". It's good to have that info corrected.

Stewart

PS - Regarding the PM's, you're welcome.

 

I'll get right to the point on this very intresting thread.

(1) You do not have to lift the body to remove a V-10 from an Excursion.

(2) You can replace rod bearings and/or the crankshaft in a V-10 Excursion without removeing the engine.

Now if the engine needs line-bored one must remove the engine.
But to put a "bottom end" kit in the X you do not need to remove the engine.

I would be intrested to know why anyone would want to go to all the trouble of removing the engine to do the bottom end.

 

So - my point was not to try and reduce the board to a 'social hangout' - but if the OP doesn't want to provide the data being asked for he wont provide it. Asking for it in several lengthy posts wont change that fact. This same thought process could be applied when someone uses terms (like wheels, rims, etc) that another might not like - just move on.....

I'm all for having more technical coverage on issues - I own a shop and while I wont pretend to know it all but do consider myself above average. While some of us have done in-depth engine work or other major repair it doesn't mean everyone here has and will just understand the question being asked and provide meaningful data.

 

* * * * * * * *

Not sure what enrages me more - people who DELIBERATELY lie to take advantage of you nice folks like Stewart, ( who thru no fault of their own just didn't have the opportunity to learn the basics of machine-work,) or people like some in here who fabricate utter irresponsible nonsence and DONT CARE whether it has ANY relationship to technical accuracy.

I ADMIRE people who are HONEST enough to admit they dont know something, and thus either 1) cannot answer or 2) want more info. so they can better serve both themselves, and their fellow car buffs.

Humans are social animals, so it is normal and natural to want to chat and participate in social gatherings, such as this forum.

But to deliberately take advantage of one's fellows, EITHER by deliberately lying, or by making up chite just to see one's words in type, NOT CARIING whether it makes sense, is eventually going to come around and "bite" you .

In life, it is only a matter of time before someone who DOES know what they are talking about, exposes that kind of person to the group as a irressponsible danger.