Hi all - first timer here...

Been toying for years with the idea of getting either a mucslecar or old truck for a project, and these days it seems I keep coming back to the old truck...my first time behind the wheel was in my Dad's lap in his '54 Ford pickup when I was maybe 8, so beyond the fact that I think they look great I have an old sentimental attachment to the style. I find myself drawn to the '51-'55 Fords in particular.

Some background - I have access to a body shop, have the resources, tools, and experience (some mine, some from a friend) to handle anything paint and body related, as well as basic engine work, and I am not afraid to customize/fabricate what is needed for the interior or exterior upgrades. In my early 40's with patience to work on said project over time.

Overall goal is to have a custom driver with some meat to it - nothing crazy, not a show truck or super high performance rod, and I am not concerned with staying original. I would like to go with 12 volt and a modern-ish drivetrain...maybe a 302 or 351 souped up a tad, and not picky on the transmission but would prefer to wind up with a manual in the floor. Darkside driver with some bite and growl would be a good description.

So here's where I need advice...I am thinking the best thing would be to find something previously (at least partially) restored to keep from starting at square one. Not overly picky on the details, so long as it's a driver already (hopefully with some modern upgrades - newer frame, or disc brakes, etc). I figure I can customize the engine, paint and body, and interior to my liking.

So...

1 - Does this sound like a solid starting plan?
2 - Is under $2,000 realistic for finding a partially restored driver (I am near Athens, GA)?
3 - What is the best way to go about finding my starter truck?
4 - Anything I should consider that I am already not?

Thanks in advance!

 

Welcome to the forum! It sounds like you've been thinking this out for a while. You have a good plan. Under 2 grand for the type of truck you're looking for might be a stretch, depending on how patient you are on finding your dream truck. You may need to double that. It's hard to find a good pile of parts anymore for under 2K, let alone a mostly finished driver.

Don't get hung up on the newer frame thing. 99.9% of frame swaps will be junk, anyway. They're more often than not someone's abortion that didn't work and they're trying to recoup their losses and stick someone else with their mess. The stock frame is great and plenty strong. You can rebuild the stock suspension and add power steering and disc brakes to them and they'll drive great. if you want IFS, there's too many great options, both from the aftermarket and adapting OEM stuff to the stock frame, to bother with the cutting and hacking involved with a frame swap.

Where to look; craigslist and swap meets from around your area is the number one place these days to find what you're looking for these days. Keep your eyes open and you'll find exactly what you want. There was a half completed project 47 Ford PU at a swap meet I saw last year that had the chassis all done with IFS, 9" rear and SBF all set up, and the body in bare metal and setup. It looked really nicely done with good sheet metal. Just needed final bodywork, paint, and finishing touches. I seem to recall it was $2500 and a great deal for what was there. But the world is full of semi-completed projects that someone lost interest in, or need to sell for one reason or another. The right buy for you will come along. Keep us posted on what you find. And remember opinions are like belly buttons. We all have them. This one's mine.

 

Welcome! and ditto what Wayne said. But it is easy to see (in hindsight) that paying more up front for a truck in better condition, with more done to it (if done properly), is a shorter and cheaper path to the finished product. A $10k initial purchase may be a better deal than a $4k project. Honestly, you need to either accept that it's going to cost you $15k or more in the end, or really, really restrain yourself. You being able to do body and paint tilts that a lot, that's a major part of the expense, but don't kid yourself into thinking you can have all you want for $4k.

 

Thanks for the welcome and advice guys!

Good info on the new frame issue...in reality, I don't mind keeping the old frame and suspension, but I would likely do a a disk brake setup for better safety.

Also good info on the budget...here's what I am ballparking:

$2,000 for an initial truck that is at least able to move on its own, with a more or less intact body.
$1500 for motor/transmission/gear parts
$1000 in misc odds and ends parts (for good measure)
$500 in interior parts and material (fabricating most custom items from aluminum and fiberglass, maybe some bucket seats out of something else)
$500 in body and paint materials (self labor)
$1000 in wheels and tires

So I am estimating somewhere around $6500 in the end, with the money spent over a one to two year period as I tackle different portions.

The key is I will have about $2000 of it to start with - trying to decide if it will be enough to get going and if I am even in the ballpark on what I am getting into here.

 

I'm Building my 56 on a budget. I do all the work myself, with some help with body and paint. I've been very patient, and buying most of my part's discounted or on sale, and I'm sitting at around the $6500.00 mark and have a long way to go. Make a list and go online to some of the major vendor's and get some pricing. I'm retaining the solid frt axle. Rebuilt the whole frt end with Toyota P/S, reversed main leaf springs, power disc brakes, all new tie rods, king pins, spring bushings, and drag link kit's. I have a used 5L/AOD with 60K miles, Explorer 8.8 rear diff, Posie rear spring's, Lokar shifter, aftermarket column, and lots of other misc pieces. It doesn't take long to add up. The original cost of my truck was $2500.00 All the metal work was done by the PO. (that really save me a ton of $$$) Welcome to the forum. Keep us updated, and good luck with your build.

 

Add to your list:
-- wiring harness - $300 - $500
-- rear axle swap -- $300 - 700
-- Driveshaft mods -- $200
-- all new brake lines and hoses -- new booster and dual MC, proportioning valves, etc -- $750? and that doesn't include the disc conversion

You can see how it goes... Upholstery/seats/iinterior, another grand most likely, without breaking a sweat. My original budget for a totally stock, reliable, junkyard hauler was $3500, I'm sitting way past $15k with a very nice mostly stock truck. My "plan" changed...

Don't fool yourself that you can buy a great running, reliable engine and trans off Craigslist for $700, either. Rarely the case!

 

And not sure when the last time you priced paint & materials, but $500 will barely get you a can of primer anymore. Add filler, sandpaper, masking paper, tape, primers, hardeners, reducers, color and clear, plus cleaners, towels, etc., you can easily tip your $2000 budget right there.

 

The previous advice is sound. We are not trying to discourage you, quite the opposite, but it appears you have a somewhat unrealistic idea of the cost of one of these trucks, and just want to be sure you go in with your eyes open.
There are several levels of starting points and costs for each. (Obviously sometimes someone lucks out finding a truck that was stuck in a garage or back of a barn and forgotten about, someone dies and the heirs just want to get rid of "that old pile of junk", someone get a project in a divorce, etc., but those are few and far between and seem to fall in the buyer's lap unexpectedly. These are for average seller advertised starters)
1. Basket case I: These are the most often found. Vehicles that have been out in the elements in harsh climates unprotected and/or driven in parts of the country where salt is used in the winter for extended period of time. They will typically have extensive rust, frozen or no drivetrain, glass or interior. Parts may have been stripped off. Typical asking price: 0 - 1000.00 Best use: Part vehicle if there is anything useable left.
2. Basket case II: This is usually an early aborted project. Vehicle has been stripped and parts scattered so don't know what's missing or where things go. Has no useable drivetrain or an uninstalled and not running condition unknown engine and transmission. Sheetmetal has some typical rust but is likely repairable. Typical asking price 2000 - 5000.00 Best use: parts vehicle, possible project start for a long term project if parts are in good useable condition and price is low enough.
3. Basket case III: This is an aborted project where the builder was way over his head in experience and/or skill. Includes attempted chassis swaps, junkyard suspension swaps, major incomplete body and /or frame modifications (top chop etc,), rat rod projects, mongrel drivetrain swaps, poorly executed modifications, suspect welds, scrap metal and torch cuts used inappropriately throughout. Typical asking price: 1000.00 - ridiculous. Best use: walk away unless there are some unmolested parts you might need and the total price is appropriate for those parts only.
4. Unmolested stocker: A vehicle that is in original but aged condition. Has been protected from major elements or from an area with "kind" climate (mostly SW US). Sheet metal had faded sunburnt paint, surface rust and has some typical rust thru, but repairable. seat is complete but upholstery worn/rotted away full instruments in dash, small trim parts present no significant collision damage. Could be at least winched onto trailer for transport. Drivetrain complete by condition unimportant if upgrade planned. Typical asking price: 5000. -10,000 depending on condition, part of the country. Best use: Project starter for someone who likes to build more than drive, and/or plans to make major upgrades, stock restoration start.
5. "older restoration": This truck is someone else's project in running and driving condition. Safety and operational parts (brakes, steering, electrical, drivetrain) have been repaired/replaced with OEM type parts. Average DIY or low end paint job in fair (20 ft.) condition or attractively aged patina overall. Has running OEM or unmodified later model drivetrain.(a large part of the value to the buyer is dependent on if the drivetrain is satisfactory as is or will be replaced.) Rust is minimal or well repaired. Interior is servicable to good condition, all electrical works. Any/all modification have been done in a clean professional manner with suitable quality parts. Give higher price to any/all mods/upgrades that are attractive and desirable to the buyer. Discount upgrades (wheels, brakes, driveline, etc.) that will be replaced soon by buyer even if well done, add resale value of the removed parts if in good condition. Average asking price: 8000.00 - 15000. Best use: A desirable project start. Always buy the best starting vehicle you can afford. The best value is in buying someone else's investment/work. Seldom can a builder sell avehicle for what they have in it, so the buyer is usually spending far less than it would cost them to build the same vehicle.

It is going to cost 12000 -20000 to build a dependable driveable truck. If you start with the average 2000 vehicle you are going to have to spend 10000 - 18000 on it and it's going to be worth 7000 - 11000 when you are done. If you buy a (nearly) completed project someone has invested 15000 in for 10000 and put in 2000 -5000 to finish to your liking you have made the same financial investment, but in the latter case have something better you can drive immediately or in a short time where the former is going to take years of work to put on the road.

IMHO based on >50 years experience, your budget figures are EXTREMELY optimistic. Actual real world costs would be more realistically 300 - 400% higher. Standard rule of thumb: everything in this hobby will actually cost 3X as much and take 4X as long as your most generous projections, especially on a first project.

 

All true ,but don't let that discourage you from one of the most enjoyable experiences of your life. You will get back way more (pleasure, fun, and enjoyment) than it costs. So with that said, Ill wish you the best of luck, and sincerely look forward to watching as you build your dream truck.

 

I have access to all this I need for mostly trade in labor. I used to do custom airbrush work for a living, and plan on swapping out work for materials (and labor help and facilities) at my friend's shop...he has a large full production PPG shop and has been after me to get back into airbrushing projects for him for a couple of years. I added some hard costs in there for the odds and ends I may want that he doesn't normally carry (House of Color paints if I want to do graphics, for example).

But even with that it does sound like I need to re-adjust my expectations on initial and final costs...which is the main reason I wanted to start this thread. I figured my assumptions might be off, and always try to learn from experience and "wisdom born of pain" from others when I can. I appreciate everyone sharing what they have been through and helping me come up to speed so fast on expectations and reality.

What a great write-up on the stages of being for trucks one might encounter...great examples, and I really appreciate you taking the time to write all that up!

It is starting to sound like category 5 ("older restoration") may be the place I want to start. Obviously you never get out what you put into one, so why not benefit from that and get a great head start...


Going to have to re-think this whole plan. I will be taking this on, but it sounds like I may want to start closer to $8,000 for the entry point (with plenty of patience to wait for the 'right' deal). If so, that puts my start point out possibly a year to better prep the starting funds.

 

Hey Damaged One,
Some Thoughts on your Project:
o Start with a Solid Cab - Grinding & welding on a cab takes forever.
You'll save at least 6 months of very hard work. (Look at cab corners, floors, bottom of doors, drip rails, etc..). If it has rust/cancer in the roof line above the window - pass. You can get decent western cabs for $800.

o Find one with an upgraded or refurbished Front Suspension - If you can find one with a decently installed independent front suspension with disc brakes - you will save yourself $2500 in parts & at least 3 to 4 months of effort. Stock isn't bad either - if it's refurbished you save $1000.

o Perfect Bed Wood isn't important - You can buy replacement bed wood for under $500. An entire bed less the fenders for $1500. Fenders $265 ea for fiberglass.

We (over)paid $6500 for our truck - semi basket case. There are just so many darn parts to these things. I've seen several nice running trucks built on this forum for a reasonable amt. starting from around your $2500 budget. They did all the work themselves - Look at Dmack's build as an example, Uncle Dan, etc.

Good luck over there.

Ben in Austin
1950 F1

 

Note that I put "older restoration" in quotes because it isn't actually a restoration in the pure sense, which means to carefully return the vehicle to as close as possible to the original as new in the dealer showroom state. A restoration is painted the original factory color with the same type paint used at the factory, it has the original brand battery, all the original underhood decals, all the bolts are exactly the same as originally used, all acessories are exactly/only the same as were originally available, etc etc etc, no reproduction parts allowed. (some restoration purists allow for safety upgrades such as turn signals ad/or seat belts, others want the tires to be filled with 50's air!). My quoted state means it was repaired and reasonably maintained to be drivable and retain a close to stock appearance. True restorations can go for 20000 to 30000 to a museum or collector at some of the high end auctions.
As I said, it is going to end up costing about the same whatever you start with so you will be better off saving up the money you would otherwise spend and use the time to find just the right deal. Don't discount searching far away from your local area, even if you have to have a vehicle shipped it's typically about 1000-1500 to ship coast to coast, or near the price of the repair panels needed to repair a rust bucket. I found my truck on ebay,, had it checked out by a gearhead relative of a friend, my ex-wife and I flew to NM to pick it up and drove it back to NC. It was a rare model, rust free and the mods that were already done were 90% what I would have wished for, plus it has a good title was on the road and being driven.

That brings up another point. States are cracking down on ownership documentation on older vehicles, so before you buy ANYTHING, check with the state DMV headquarters to verify exactly what paperwork you will need to prove ownership, title and/or register an older truck BEFORE you put out one dime or one minute of work, and then immediately take care of the transfer paperwork. Do NOT assume you can skirt the regulations, sometimes someone does get away with a fast one, but it's even more likely you could end up having the vehicle confiscated, possibly face fraud and/or possession of stolen goods charges, or end up with a very expensive lawn ornament. On our trucks there is a factory stamped serial # in the top of the frame usually on the passenger side near the firewall that is the legal identifier for the entire vehicle and must match the paperwork. No other number, stamp, or plate matters. If you have every single piece of one truck including the paperwork except the frame or even the front portion of the frame has ben removed/lost/destroyed, you no longer have a legal vehicle, just a pile of parts. However if you have NOTHING but the frame and the matching paperwork, you have a transferable vehicle. This is very important when checking out a truck that has had the frame replaced or the forward portion altered.

 

Howdy neighbor,

I bought my 53 F100for $1,800, but after I discovered the frame to be badly bent, I realized I also paid too much. I had planned on a nice beater truck to drive around on week-ends (at the time my son had my S10 at college) with a budget of maybe $10,000. Well, I got my S10 back and after buying the TCI chassis and taking my truck up several levels past any of my plans, I probably have at least $20,000 into the truck. So, the S10 is now my DD and the 53 rarely makes it out of the garage. It's kind of sad to me how that turned out. The Swap Meet in Moultrie, GA in November has a huge car-coral and lots of supplies and parts (you can buy directly from vendors and save on shipping).

 

This sounds like what I have in mind as well - by driver I meant a weekend toy (have a 2013 F150 for the DD). Also sounds like what I would wind up doing money-wise before it was all said and done...'well, if I am going to do it, might as well spend a little more and do it right" - gets real easy to justify an extra few hundred here and there.

I am torn between finding someone else's decent project to tweak or doing it all myself - can see satisfaction in both paths, with one saving money and time at a trade-off of the sweat equity of the "I did that all myself". But, I also tend to plan in advance and research things to death before I make a move (hence why I am here!)...I try to go into things realistically when possible.

If I keep going on this path I wouldn't mind seeing if we could arrange a day where I could maybe make a trip out to see your 53 (if you wouldn't mind). That would be well worth the trip to see the end product up close and pick your brain on the trials and tribulations you faced on the journey...

I know a local guy who has a collection of old Model A's and T's he has restored - going to talk with him as well. Plus, I have met another local man who has a pair of '59 Studebaker pickups he has had for over 20 years (one with a factory V8 that cranks instantly and purs like a kitten!)- super nice guy.

One thing I have found over and over (and again here on this forum) - most car guys I have met have been nice and very interesting people who enjoy talking and sharing knowledge. You can always find bad apples in any section of people, but car folks more often than not tend to be 'good people' in my experience.

I really do appreciate all the time and info from you all already on here!

 

It can be done, but it takes time and patience. Mine is along the lines of AX's 2nd option. It was partially apart, had a 289/C4/9" scabbed in (terribly) in unknown condition. I bought it for $450 and put another 6K in it to get it to DD (around town errand runner) condition. I did all of the work myself.

I was fortunate in that the engine and trans were usable with general maintenance and updating. Needed a fair amount of bodywork, which was my first attempt at that.

I kept the stock front axle and replaced everything, upgraded to discs, Speedway wiring kit, Toyota PS conversion, power brakes, and the usual upgrades and updating.

It took 2 years and a lot of scrounging/scavenging scrap and junkyards, as well as the usual ebay and CL shopping. While it is nowhere near as nice as most other builds, but I can say it is mine and I did it all. Something to be said for that IMO.