Pure o2?
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Cargo Master
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Sand GAp, KY
Pure o2?
A turbo is used to increase the amount of air in the camber therefore allowing more fuel and more complete combustion but also brings up the pressure wich is not so good. The only part of the "air" that is used for combustion is the o2 (one of the 3 parts of the fire triangle). So if you wre to use a bottle of compressed o2 like we use for torches and routed it to the intake wouldn't it do the same thing as the turbo but with out the harmfull higher pressures? I realize that it would be dangerous and not free power as the o2 costs money to gewt filled but in theory wouldn't it work?
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Pure O2 introduced into any internal combustion engine will result in such an explosive increase in cylinder pressure, that your heads would be blown off the block, and your pistons through your oil pan. That's why there's Nitrous Oxide. A cubic foot of N2O has 2.3 times the density of oxygen as atmospheric air. The Nitrogen component acts as a buffer for the Oxygen component. On a gas engine, you have to retard the timing for running on N2O, because if you don't, you'll have severe detonation. Without the Nitrogen buffer, forget it. N2O increases cylinder pressures much more radically than a turbocharger, running straight O2 would result in your engine being suitable for use as a boat anchor.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Sand GAp, KY
Yes I know about the propane but it is just more fuel and would therefore require more air, we can already over fuel these engines. O2 is the oxidizer in all the eqautions so it should actually be better than most power adders.
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From: Phoenix
I think jester is dead on with one exception....I question whether or not there would be enough engine left to make a usable boat anchor.
Ken, in theory you are totally correct as far as O2 being an excellent power adder, the problem is it is way too much power....keep in mind when you are dealing with forced induction what raises the cyl pressure is the extra O2 (along with other air crap that acts as a buffer) being forced into the system....in short an equal quantity of straight O2 could be used but it would not do anything as far as reducing cyl pressures, and you would have a royal PITA trying to regulate the how much and where it gets in the engine.
I will say I had never thought about this, and will make it a point that when I have extra time and money to experiment with direct O2 injection.....wont be cheap, but could be hella fun....in part because most think it is insane or cant be done.
EDIT: After rereading your first post to give some clairification the pressure eliminated would be on the intake manifold....cyl pressures would stay the same
Ken, in theory you are totally correct as far as O2 being an excellent power adder, the problem is it is way too much power....keep in mind when you are dealing with forced induction what raises the cyl pressure is the extra O2 (along with other air crap that acts as a buffer) being forced into the system....in short an equal quantity of straight O2 could be used but it would not do anything as far as reducing cyl pressures, and you would have a royal PITA trying to regulate the how much and where it gets in the engine.
I will say I had never thought about this, and will make it a point that when I have extra time and money to experiment with direct O2 injection.....wont be cheap, but could be hella fun....in part because most think it is insane or cant be done.
EDIT: After rereading your first post to give some clairification the pressure eliminated would be on the intake manifold....cyl pressures would stay the same
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Nutter Fort, WV
I think the main problem would be heat that would get out of control very quickly.
A turbo is adding air volume which helps bring down cylinder temps.
Increasing the O2 percentage, with much smaller volume increases would mean much more heat.
A definite watch the pyrometer like a hawk ride.
And this would also work out a lot like propane on a NA engine.
With a mechanical engine, there is not really a good way to regulate the gas flow.
A system like the Power Shot 2000 uses turbo boost to regulate the flow.
On a turbo engine, you can use a Hobbs switch to control the flow, on and off flow based on a set boost pressure, so that really means that engine RPM and throttle position do have an effect on when the valve opens.
But with a NA engine, your only control that can easily be used is throttle position.
So you go out an floor the throttle at 1000 RPM, the valve opens and you have gas flow at an RPM that is to low.
Head gaskets take a big hit.
With oxygen being the gas, the head gasket hit would be bigger, lots of fuel, lots of oxygen since the RPM would be low and huge cylinder pressures and heat.
A turbo is adding air volume which helps bring down cylinder temps.
Increasing the O2 percentage, with much smaller volume increases would mean much more heat.
A definite watch the pyrometer like a hawk ride.
And this would also work out a lot like propane on a NA engine.
With a mechanical engine, there is not really a good way to regulate the gas flow.
A system like the Power Shot 2000 uses turbo boost to regulate the flow.
On a turbo engine, you can use a Hobbs switch to control the flow, on and off flow based on a set boost pressure, so that really means that engine RPM and throttle position do have an effect on when the valve opens.
But with a NA engine, your only control that can easily be used is throttle position.
So you go out an floor the throttle at 1000 RPM, the valve opens and you have gas flow at an RPM that is to low.
Head gaskets take a big hit.
With oxygen being the gas, the head gasket hit would be bigger, lots of fuel, lots of oxygen since the RPM would be low and huge cylinder pressures and heat.
Posting Guru
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From: Douglas, Georgia
oxygen also have this annoying tendency to explode/ignite when in the presence of oil.
Aside from the obvious dangers, this would destroy any hope for accurate timing as the oxygen would certainly ignite long before the fuel was even injected.
"whats the last thing that went through his head?"
"I think it was the flywheel"
Aside from the obvious dangers, this would destroy any hope for accurate timing as the oxygen would certainly ignite long before the fuel was even injected.
"whats the last thing that went through his head?"
"I think it was the flywheel"
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Cargo Master
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From: Sand GAp, KY
LOL. Ok it was just a thought. I have this bad habit of doing that sometimes and it gets me in trouble! Luckly I have you guys on here to keep me out of some of it.
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From: Phoenix
like I said...i like the thought...but right now with a new baby boy and lack of a totally stable income I cant go blow anything up in the name of perfecting the idea....when things level out a bit i am dying to try it...could be very cool
Posting Guru
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From: Canton, IL
And that equals a big BOOOOOOM
about 3/4 of a revolution after flooring the go pedal.
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