I can't believe I'm even saying this guys and gals, but the new 2003 Yukon Denali is going to compete with the 2003 Expedition.

I was all fired up about ordering a 2003 X when I went and test drove a 2002 Yukon Denali. I couldn't believe the bold good looks, 325 HP, ride, breaking, 17" Mich. tires and plush leather wrap-around seating on the 2002. And best of all, it sounded awesome when you "got on it".

But get this: All the things I didn't like, GMC is "fixing" on the new 2003 model. (See GMC media site for GMC Sierra & Silverado)(Stated in realease that improvements will carry over to 2003 Yukon)

http://www.media.gm.com/division/gmc/

The 2003 Yukon Denali will get new switches, special badging, new instrument panel and console, rear DVD entertainment system, XM Sat. RADIO, electronic duel climate controls, steering wheel controls and turn signal mirrors (like the original EB X but these are dimming)- all items that bugged me enough not to seriously consider a purchase. It already offers rear heated seats. The shorter wheelbase make this SUV look tough and bold (compared to the XL model which is Suburban Size.)

True, the new X will have the power fold flat 3rd row seat and independant rear suspension, but only 260 HP compared to 325 HP? I am really surprised that Ford didn't give the 2003 the 4 valve 300 HP that is in the Navigator.

I've been a "Ford Guy" all my life and an X owner/follower since Oct. 1996 but I may be drifting to the DARK SIDE...enticed by more HP and better styling. HELP! Talk me out of it.....

 

First the "new" 03 gmc denali will list at $50k or about $10k more then an EB EXPY. You are "comparing" seeminly un-matched competiters, however the new FORD still stacks up pretty well.

Take for instance the powertrain differances you note. You are reffering to the 6.0L vortec vs the 5.4l Triton. There is way more to truck performance then peak horsepower ratings and the gm units offer just that, peak HP. The ford motor while not rated with as much peak hp delivers comparable torque and that at a broader range that begans at lower RPM's. It is this low RPM torque that is important in a large, heavy truck. Peak hp does look good in the ads though and I also would not put it past the gm marketing boyz to be a little opimistic with their rating. When looking at equally greared examples of these two trucks 0-60 mph times a couple things stick out. The gm has the edge but it also has several hundred less lbs of truck to push. The advantage in 0-60 times doesn't seem to coincide with this weight and HP advantage, maybe it's not all there?

You need to be comparing the Lincoln Nav to the denali or the tahoe/sub to the Expy.

As for the updated gm switch gear, all I can say is that it's about time someone at gm looked at their dashboards. Those things look like "Play School" switches & buttons. Needless to say, somewhat discomforting on a $50k vehical!

This well runs very deep and I am sure the FTE Brain Trust will kick in with a lot of good reponses but in the end get whatever you want.

Petrol

 

As already stated, HP figures can be misleading. Torque is what gets it done. Ford has a much broader range of torque. Reliability? Take a look at consumer reports. The Expedition is recomended, where is the GM products? Ford has been #1 since day one, there is a reason for that. I have strayed to the dark side with GM once, I will never do it again! I had problems and no support what so ever. To make a long story short; my GM had engine problems....They would not repair under warranty because of an aftermarket air filter......I went to court.....they won....TWO MONTHS LATER....Major recall on my problem....I still had to pay GM back for court fees. Stay away from the Bow tie! Stay True to Blue!

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 03-Mar-02 AT 11:36 AM (EST)]Thanks for the input so far. That engine story is pretty scary, but I'm not sure Ford would have handled it any better. I'll have to look at the torque and HP curves again. I know that raw HP is not the best judge of performance. But I'm telling you, this thing moves from 30 mph to 80 mph range compared to the 5.4. I will be towing a 19' Sea Ray (trailer, boat, fuel ~ 5000 lbs) up mountains around Salt Lake, so torque is pretty important. My 5.0L in my Limited Explorer gets down to about 45 going up the canyons.

There was a thread about the looks of the 2003 earlier this year. I think I agree with others that Ford should have made the EB or Limited X for 2003 a little more distinctive (like the grille on the Denali compared to the Yukon). I saw a Black Denali pull up the other day and it really has "curb" appeal. I went out of my way to do a walk around.

A few things things that bug me still. What about the XM radio, rear heated seats, and the On Star system? I know the X will have cooled and heated front seats, but rear heated seats would be great in my area (its 12 F this morning). The XM radio is a must. I know I could add an after-market, but Ford needs to get with the program as this will be an option on nearly all the GM trucks and SUVs within the year.

I'm sure once I get to sit and drive the new X things may even out. Maybe I just have a GM virus and need to clean up my blue blood?

 

Got your HP / Torque ratings right here:

Ford 4.6L SOHC compression 9.4:1, 230 HP @ 4750, 293 Lb Ft @ 3250

Ford 5.4L SOHC compression 9.0:1, 260 HP @ 4500, 350 Lb Ft @ 2500

gm 5.3L OHV (denali 2WD only), 285 HP @ 5200, 325 Lb Ft @ 4000

gm 6.0L OHV 320 HP @ 5000, 365 Lb Ft @ 4000

When dealing with 5,000 lbs of truck it is TORQUE that gets the job done, this is especially important when you hook up a 5,000 Lbs trailer and try to hit the mountain roads.

Also as I ststed previously, the denali base price at $48,890 is over $13,000 higher then the Excursion XLT base of $35,960, much less the 2002 Expedition XB base of $34,840. If you want to play off the denali's preported content advantage you need to compare it to the Lincoln Nav, they are a much better match.

In fact since you stated your intentions to tow a trailer in the mountains, you could get the Expy, have a Supercharger installed and leave the denali in the slow lane as you drag that trailer up hill, al the while having plenty of cash left over to get an even larger boat. The new Expy 4WD can be optioned to tow 8800 Lbs vs 8100 previously.

But then again, if you got the gm virus you could at least look at the 2500 series suburban and get the big boy 496 ci (8.1L) vortec. Then when the screws come loose we'll welcome you back and we can all laugh at your new stories of gm service dept. experiances.

Petrol
99 XLT 5.4L

 

Regarding the price differences, the "Invoice" price of both for 2002 -Denali with moonroof is $42,579 compared to an equally equipt EB X at $38,673. Assuming that both new 2003 prices will remain at the same difference, that is 4 g's.

Hmmm... And I don't get the true 4x4, independent suspension, fold flat rear seat, cooled seats...but I'm giving up better styling, the XM radio and rear heated seats.

This group therapy is helping....I must have hit my head last week when I went down playing b-ball and got nailed in the chest (which cracked a few ribs).

I see that if the 2003 Expedition had an Turbo Charger, XM radio, rear heated seats and a better looking front end, it would be the near perfect SUV. I can add the XM Radio and Turbo Charger, live without the rear heated seats, and live with the moderate styling on the front end.

Will you guys take me back?.....sniff...sniff....

P.S.- Don't talk about my boat...man....

 

See if the Denali will fit into a 'standard sized garage'. My EB Expedition DOES NOT---without opening the windows and manually folding the mirrors!!! I have a 5 year old house (not an old small house with undersized garage doors). Having to manually fold mirror in mid-winter with small child in the care makes me FURIOUS!! I'm currently FIGHTING with Ford to redesing this mirror!!

IF YOU CAN AFFORD THE DENALI AND HAVE CHILDREN---GET IT!!

 

Why not fight with Walmart to get a tape measure and measure the width of a vehicle before buying it?

 

The solution for this width issue is pathetically easy:

1. Drive Expedition into garage;

2. Deploy mirrors;

3. Start engine and place transmission into "R";

4. Press accelerator pedal smartly into carpet.

More successful results will be gained by leaving the garage door open during this process, although it can be performed either way.

Please contact us with the results of this procedure.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 10-Sep-02 AT 09:15 PM (EST)]

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Shari
1999 Expedition 4.6-4x4 "Black Beauty"

P.S. Note the topic number of this topic...hehehe

 

>Why not fight with Walmart to get a tape measure and measure
>the width of a vehicle before buying it?

I might also suggest fighting with pepboys or autozone to get smaller mirrors, they sell LARGE aftermarket mirrors for towing, why not smaller ones for this?

Go on, get after 'em