10-4 Jules, my different good idea is better explained in layman terms versus in ampres, current draws, and voltage drops. No offense and no disrespect maam, I generally choose to help other rodders by phone than by struggling to get my experiences across by posts (which I am less educated in that field also) also, I enjoy the experience of meeting and helping other people at least by phone if not in person. Do not worry, I did not get any pm from anyone.

Thanks

 

First, I'd like to thank you all for this informative discussion...On Julie's 'what would need to be replaced' list the radio is included...Now, it would kill me to replace the original radio, which I had refurbished, and the ceiling mounted speaker to go 12 volt...This may be a real dumb question, but is there such a thing as a 6 volt alternator?...I ask, because I have had similar problems that some of you described with my 60 T-bird that has a 12-volt system with a generator...I know there are many more electrical gadgets on a T-bird, but even when not using most of them, my lights will be dull at a stoplight, and after a few short trips the battery woud need a jump....It was suggested to me to convert to an alternator on the Bird...Anything like that for a 6 volt?...

 

That's cool, I'm not at all worried, just always looking for the "lost procedure" to add to my knowledge base. Depite my talking about this stuff alot, I learn a tremendous amount from these "Chats" too!

Also, as far as alternators are concerned, yes they make 6 volt alternators. But the reason they work better is not because they produce alternating current, but because they are usually built to support the requirement for more amps (hmmm, Last Chance seems to have made a valid point with the amps/volts/potatos/tomatos).

Anyway, by the time automakers started thinking about alternators, the electical demand was higher (as 52 Merc noted) and alternators were made to produce more than the generators did (normally 75 amps). But what is most significant about alternators is that they can produce a stronger electrical output at lower or even idle rpm. That's the problem you are having with your T-bird. It's not voltage related. Generators need about 1100-1500 rpm to break even. At idle rpm of 700, you are discharging.....Stop and go traffic for 2 hours and you're dead (if you didn't overheat first - tee hee). Alternators were the solution.

Just FYI Ford produced a conversion kit for the 35 amp generators to step them up to 60 amp rated output. It basically was a stronger bracket, and a smaller pulley - coupled with a different regulator.

As far as vintage radios go, there is a device that is generally available that will allow you use a 12 volt radio on a 6 volt system. But unfortunately you can't use voltage reducers like a vol-ta-drop with a vintage radio to allow a 6 volt radio on a 12 volt truck. The reason is because as they warm up, tube radios require less amperage. Voltage reducers are not consistant enough when delivering reduced voltage to variable amperage devices. Tube radios are very sensative to the voltage variation.

Of interesting note though, most Post WWII radios are not polarity sensative.

IMO, the best solution if you have a 6 volt vintage radio and want to put it on a 12 volt truck is to have it converted to 12 volt - and it's expensive - about $100-$150 (or about as much as another refurb). But hey, I spent $500 on my 51 CA. "Commercial, Year of Manufacture (YOM)" license plates. It's all relative I guess.

PS. They are now making alternators that look exactly like the old generators too. So if you are concerned about that "Vintage Correct Look" like on your "Bird," no one except a very few well trained eyes would ever know it was an alternator.

 

Julie, thanks...So is there any advantage to going with an alternator on a six-volt other than at low RPM?...Another question I'd have is if I'm the dope in the parking lot with the hood up (or in my truck's case, the passenger door open and the floormat peeled back), and a set of jumper cables in my hands, can a six-volt batter get a jump from a 12 volt car?...

 

Yep, well, that output capacity, and low rpm difference with the alternator is the important difference - the fix.

I wouldn't jump a hooked up 6 volt POSITIVE ground system with a 12 volt NEGATIVE ground car. It will fry the diodes on the alternator on the 12 volt car. Maybe make sparklees and smoke!

You can use a 12 volt BATTERY to jump the 6 volt system. That's like having two 6 volt batteries there hooked up in series. If you call a tow truck that's usually how their jump batteries are hooked up. Just make sure all your lights and accessories are turned off, and don't hook it up very long, your ignition parts won't like it.

Generally when it comes to theory there are things you should be able to do, but in actual practice, I would not jump a 6 volt system from a 12 volt car.

If you are at that point regularly, it's time to fix the problem - alternators or 12 volt conversion with an alternator.

 

Thanks again, Julie...Most of my concerns are planning ahead...My truck has a Fordomatic, so I won't be able to park it on a hill and turn the key on, let it roll and pop the clutch to start it if I get stuck somewhere...

On an unrelated note, I'm about finished assembling my wood bed and wanted to post some pics of the assembly but it won't allow me to do it...Is it because I don't have enough posts, and do I have to put them in my gallery?...I wasn't sure who else to ask...

 

You need to post them in your gallery then copy the URL out of the properties and transfere that to paste it in the window that pops up when you click on the little mountain icon.

OR, you become a "Supporter" and then you can direct browse/import.

There's a very informative "Read First" thread on posting pictures on the forum page.

 

My personal 2 cents: I still have my '54 F-100 6 volt with a generator. I have never had any problems with my battery discharging, no problems in stop and go traffic or even in a slow moving parade. Never had problems starting the truck after such driving. My 6 volt battery lasted 10 years! I just bought a new one this summer. Now my truck is plain stock with no extra accessories, no radio, etc... But in the 32 years I have owned the truck, the 6 volt system has served me well! If, of course, you have/want radio, marker lights, modern sound system, etc then you should go 12 volt.

About using jumper cables: I have jumped my truck many times with a 12 volt car. I am quick to remove the cables after my truck starts (removing the car's cables first) and I do not leave them on too long if the truck does not start right away. I have never had any problems with my truck or the car that I use to jump with.

When I was young in the late 70's, I was trying to figure out a way to hook up an 8-Track player but gave up when I found how much work needed done. Now I am glad it is still stock...

 

I had to giggle at your post Abe! I would venture to say that you are probably someone who has realized that these old trucks were not something you could drive, they needed to be OPERATED, and it took some driving and mechanical knowledge. You are probably operating it correctly and don't even know it. I doubt a teenage driver could drive your truck and have the same good fortune.

Two questions, just to tease: first, was the car with the 12 volt system running when you jumped with it to the 6 volt? or did you just use the battery to turn over the truck. It's when the 12 volt car is running (ie alternator operating) you have problems sometimes.

And my second question is, if you never had any problems with your 6 volt system and had a battery that lasted 10 years, then why did you have to jump it many times?

You make a good point that supports what I said earlier. If you have no accessories - ie you have vacuum wipers, no heater, no radio, chances are you'll be ok for a long period at idle or low rpm. But if you are driving at night, with electric wipers, lights on, and defroster blowing, below 2500 rpm, you've got about 2 hours before you are walkin in the rain - even with a 12 volt generator. It's the reason I sold my 55 after 3 years of dead batteries and "walkin' in the rain." Wish I knew then.........!

 

OK, Julie, here is the answer to your tease: the cars with the 12 volts were running when they jumped my truck; I haven't had to use jumper cables on the truck in the last 10 years, before I had rebuilt the starter and generator and replaced all cables with the correct gauge cables I had to use jumper cables if I wasn't parked on a hill. Remember I have owned this truck since 1977. I do have electric wipers and heater and when the lights are on high beam I do see the 'Gen' light start to glow... but never had problems starting it the next day.

 

I wish I would have known you in 1985 when I sold my 55 F-100! If I had, I'd probably still have it!

 

Since I don't have my F1 home yet to know the layout of the engine compartment, my comments may not be relevant because of the starter or starter solenoid accessibility. My other 6 volt positive ground vices are Crosleys and a Ford 8N. I have jumped them a few times with 12 volts with out a problem because I jump directly to the starter or the starter side of the solenoid with the key on. This only works if there is still enough 6 volt battery left for ignition. The solenoid protects the 6 volt battery and the rest of your wiring from the 12 volt jump.

 

The problem isn't with the 6 volt system or the positive ground on the truck. The problem (which doesn't always happen but CAN happen) is possible damage to the Alternator of the helper car once the truck starts up. Doesn't always happen especially if you are careful and know what you are doing. If I were new to driving and jumping cars I wouldn't try it.

Abe, got an alternator in that car you jumped from, or a generator?

 

The cars I used lately to jump had alternators. I understand what you are saying, but I have a helper by the car to take off the cables as soon as it is started.

Did you ever see the options on '53-'56 trucks? You could order a heavy duty generator, probably for the bigger trucks that had more lights and accessories, like firetrucks or other specialty trucks.