Which 4 barrel for me?
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Which 4 barrel for me?
I am planning on tearing a few things on my 300 off and putting a few better things back on again. Off will come the stock "log" exhaust manifold, the stock intake manifold, and last, but definately not least, that crappy carter 1-barrel will come off, and get thrown as far as I can throw off the nearest pier.
So, all you more experienced 300 carb swappers,I was wondering which carb, and offy manifold you would suggest. I have already heard enough stuff to pretty much be talked out of the Holley 390. I was wondering if the Holley truck avenger 470 would be much better? And I am also considering a 500 edelbrock. Any others I might try? I am mainly looking for something easy to tune, and hopefully stay tuned for a while, and I am shooting for around 17 mpg, (would be nice, we'll see, 1986 f250 4x4 np435 3.55 gears) I know this topic gets quite a bit of airtime, but it always seems to be about the holley 390, and I want to know more about the holley 470 and the edelbrock. All input accepted graciously. Thank You. 
So, all you more experienced 300 carb swappers,I was wondering which carb, and offy manifold you would suggest. I have already heard enough stuff to pretty much be talked out of the Holley 390. I was wondering if the Holley truck avenger 470 would be much better? And I am also considering a 500 edelbrock. Any others I might try? I am mainly looking for something easy to tune, and hopefully stay tuned for a while, and I am shooting for around 17 mpg, (would be nice, we'll see, 1986 f250 4x4 np435 3.55 gears) I know this topic gets quite a bit of airtime, but it always seems to be about the holley 390, and I want to know more about the holley 470 and the edelbrock. All input accepted graciously. Thank You.
Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,182
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From: Near Los Angeles
To make all your componets work efficently together you need to help your engine breathe easier. The way you do that is by porting and polishing the head. You can do it yourself or have a professional do it for about $300. That will wake up your engine.
I personally have the Edelbrock 500. It is a great carburetor, and was a bolt on operation for my truck. However, I have over-size valves in my engine, and an rv cam, so that might make a difference. If the stock Edelbrock is too much, you can buy the metering kit for it, and dial it in. The kit runs about $40. You can check the Edelbrock instructions for how it is done on their website, or through the Summit Racing website. It seems like a pretty easy procedure.
It is a blast when you feel the secondaries open up and the beast takes off! For a week or so, until you get tired of 'driving like in high school' and get over the thrill of your new engine, your milage won't be too good.
Two other things to consider prior to the swap: A cover plate for the bottom of the Offy intake, with cooling fluid entrance and exit. A tip I would offer would be to make the tubes going in and out as long as possible to clean the manifold and make it as easy as possible to attach hoses.
Tip #2: Throttle linkage. Your carb is going to sit so that the throttle pulls toward the passenger fender. Lokar makes a cable that works quite nicely, and a bracket to secure it as well.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010256.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010256.jpg" border="0" alt="MSD mounted with vibration mounts"></a>
You can see the cable in the photo above.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010245.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010245.jpg" border="0" alt="long hose fittings to clear headers"></a>
The one tube I should have made a couple of inches longer.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010246.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010246.jpg" border="0" alt="Offenhauser bottom plate"></a>
I welded the fittings to the plate so I wouldn't have to worry about leaks. I should have welded the pipe into the elbows as well.
I personally have the Edelbrock 500. It is a great carburetor, and was a bolt on operation for my truck. However, I have over-size valves in my engine, and an rv cam, so that might make a difference. If the stock Edelbrock is too much, you can buy the metering kit for it, and dial it in. The kit runs about $40. You can check the Edelbrock instructions for how it is done on their website, or through the Summit Racing website. It seems like a pretty easy procedure.
It is a blast when you feel the secondaries open up and the beast takes off! For a week or so, until you get tired of 'driving like in high school' and get over the thrill of your new engine, your milage won't be too good.
Two other things to consider prior to the swap: A cover plate for the bottom of the Offy intake, with cooling fluid entrance and exit. A tip I would offer would be to make the tubes going in and out as long as possible to clean the manifold and make it as easy as possible to attach hoses.
Tip #2: Throttle linkage. Your carb is going to sit so that the throttle pulls toward the passenger fender. Lokar makes a cable that works quite nicely, and a bracket to secure it as well.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010256.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010256.jpg" border="0" alt="MSD mounted with vibration mounts"></a>
You can see the cable in the photo above.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010245.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010245.jpg" border="0" alt="long hose fittings to clear headers"></a>
The one tube I should have made a couple of inches longer.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010246.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010246.jpg" border="0" alt="Offenhauser bottom plate"></a>
I welded the fittings to the plate so I wouldn't have to worry about leaks. I should have welded the pipe into the elbows as well.
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,961
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From: Greater Austin, Texas
The best carburetor ever made by man is the Rochester Quadrajet. Closest thing to EFI in a carb you can get. Find one for a Chevy 305 or Pontiac 301 and you will be good to go. Very sophisticated fuel metering and much more durable than a Holley.
Isn't the Edelbrock carb the same as the old Carter AFB?
Isn't the Edelbrock carb the same as the old Carter AFB?
Elder User
Joined: Nov 2005
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The best carburetor ever made by man is the Rochester Quadrajet. Closest thing to EFI in a carb you can get. Find one for a Chevy 305 or Pontiac 301 and you will be good to go. Very sophisticated fuel metering and much more durable than a Holley.
Isn't the Edelbrock carb the same as the old Carter AFB?
Isn't the Edelbrock carb the same as the old Carter AFB?
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 708
Likes: 1
I agree that the rochester is a fantastic carb. But in at least one way it is definitely not like EFI, and that's metering fuel well in a vehicle that's off camber. The holley truck avengers are specifically designed to do that. I've seen videos of rock and mud buggies almost verticle and the engine still running. If you don't offroad your truck that extreme though I'd say a rochester may be a better street carb than a 470 truck avenger. But the 670, 770 truck avengers come with annular boosters in the primaries, making the carb atomize fuel well even at low vacuum signals (making the carb act smaller on smaller engines, while still having the breathing benefits of a bigger carb). I've run a 670 truck avenger on a 300 before and I liked it. (didn't do extreme offroading with it though)
Restorer, your engine looks great! I didn't really think blasting the black off the clifford valve cover and chroming it would look that good but I was wrong, it looks sweet
Restorer, your engine looks great! I didn't really think blasting the black off the clifford valve cover and chroming it would look that good but I was wrong, it looks sweet
Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,182
Likes: 381
From: Near Los Angeles
Restorer, your engine looks great! I didn't really think blasting the black off the clifford valve cover and chroming it would look that good but I was wrong, it looks sweet
Thanks! But it isn't chromed. It is polished aluminum. Just go to Home Cheapo (Depot) and get some paint stripper. Spread it on with a cheap paint brush, let it blister, then wash it off with the hose and a bit of scrubbing with a plastic bristle brush. Repeat until all the paint is gone. When it was dry I took mine to a chrome shop and had them polish it for $70 bucks. BEFORE REINSTALLING, CLEAN THE POLISHING COMPOUND UP UNDER THE BAFFLE, INSIDE THE VALVE COVER. That little mistake cost me a set of bearings!!
Thanks! But it isn't chromed. It is polished aluminum. Just go to Home Cheapo (Depot) and get some paint stripper. Spread it on with a cheap paint brush, let it blister, then wash it off with the hose and a bit of scrubbing with a plastic bristle brush. Repeat until all the paint is gone. When it was dry I took mine to a chrome shop and had them polish it for $70 bucks. BEFORE REINSTALLING, CLEAN THE POLISHING COMPOUND UP UNDER THE BAFFLE, INSIDE THE VALVE COVER. That little mistake cost me a set of bearings!!
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How would you say the Q Jet, Edelbrock 500, and the Holley truck avenger stack up as far as gas milage? Oh and by the way thanks for all the input.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,182
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From: Near Los Angeles
carb suggestion
If you were going to use the C manifold, so the carb could sit lengthwise to the engine, then I would suggest an Autolite 4100. I had one on my 300, but with the dp manifold, it sat so close to the valve cover that I couldn't adjust the mixture. But it kicked butt! Super easy to rebuild, with kits readily available.
Google pony carburetors .com and read up on them. Holley paid Ford to copy the annular fuel discharge system. You can pick one up for pretty cheap at a swap meet or craig's list, and rebuild it yourself. The 1.08 venturi size (480 cfm) came stock on the Mustang 289's, up until '68. Pony Carbs also sells 'shims' for the 1.12 venturi size (600 cfm), which makes it (internally) a spreadbore, cutting down the primary venturi size to 1.00. That way you'll get killer mpg, and still have snap-neck acceleration for the 'highschool' moments.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010153.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010153.jpg" border="0" alt="autolite 4100"></a>
This 4100 Autolite has been replated.
Google pony carburetors .com and read up on them. Holley paid Ford to copy the annular fuel discharge system. You can pick one up for pretty cheap at a swap meet or craig's list, and rebuild it yourself. The 1.08 venturi size (480 cfm) came stock on the Mustang 289's, up until '68. Pony Carbs also sells 'shims' for the 1.12 venturi size (600 cfm), which makes it (internally) a spreadbore, cutting down the primary venturi size to 1.00. That way you'll get killer mpg, and still have snap-neck acceleration for the 'highschool' moments.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010153.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010153.jpg" border="0" alt="autolite 4100"></a>
This 4100 Autolite has been replated.
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Lead Driver
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How do they stack up? Vehicle weight, configuration, gear ratio's, cam size, engine state of tune, intake type, trans ... all come in to play. Under identical conditions in a laboratory, I'd guess the carb with the lowest cfm would take the mpg prize. But in the real world?
Note: I have a '75 F-250 with a '78 300 bored .030 over, rv cam, ported and polished head with over-size valves, bumped compression ratio, msd ignition with tfi street blaster coil, offy dp intake, hedman header, and Edelbrock 500, 3.31:1 rear end, and I get 15 mpg on the freeway, average over 500 miles, and about 60 miles of that was foothills. And that made me happy.
Note: I have a '75 F-250 with a '78 300 bored .030 over, rv cam, ported and polished head with over-size valves, bumped compression ratio, msd ignition with tfi street blaster coil, offy dp intake, hedman header, and Edelbrock 500, 3.31:1 rear end, and I get 15 mpg on the freeway, average over 500 miles, and about 60 miles of that was foothills. And that made me happy.
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This will be on a 1986 f250 4x4 NP435 trans 3.55 gears. What are the main differences between the two offy intakes? Sorry I'm kind of new to this whole induction modification thing. (That will probably be one of my easiest choices for this whole project, because I don't have enough dough for the clifford manifold, so my new manifold is going to have to be one of the offys, I'm just not quite sure which one.)
Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Near Los Angeles
RESEARCH is a big part of any project. DO YOUR RESEARCH. Don't rely on what others tell you. Go to the websites and read about the products and the differences. Weigh the differences and decide according to the GOALS you set for your project.
Things to remember:
1. Set a goal for your project.
2. Do your research.
Things to remember:
1. Set a goal for your project.
2. Do your research.
Postmaster
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From: Spokane, WA
Phethean Racing Products - Offenhauser
Phethean Racing Products - Offenhauser
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Phethean Racing Products - Offenhauser
Just to get you started...
Cranky Old Guy
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Raphine, Virginia
Just for info only, not an opinion. If thinking about a quadrajet, check BC Bronco's. He builds that carb in I believe 3 diff config. and the Bronco crowd have very good things to say about his carbs. I wish I could use the Edelbrock on my 200 but will have to go with the Holley 390. Glad you posted that pic with the Lokar cable F-250 restorer, hope to get mine installed this weekend.
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Phethean Racing Products - Offenhauser
Phethean Racing Products - Offenhauser
Just to get you started...
Phethean Racing Products - Offenhauser
Just to get you started...
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