Steering Question
Steering Question
This is in regard to my 79 F150 4WD.
Having jacked up the front end and wobbled the wheel by hand (both vertically and horizontally), I can see that I have worn bearings (vertical part) and steering components (horizontal). Just looking at where the tie-rod and drag rod ends attach, I can see a TON of slop in the joints. I would guess that this is a major player in my death wobble situation.
My first thought was to replace it all with new parts. But then looking at the cost of all the various linkages, the dampener, etc, I began to wonder if there are rebuild kits for this. Does anyone know? Any recommendations?
Also, is it tough to replace the bearings? Thanks!
Having jacked up the front end and wobbled the wheel by hand (both vertically and horizontally), I can see that I have worn bearings (vertical part) and steering components (horizontal). Just looking at where the tie-rod and drag rod ends attach, I can see a TON of slop in the joints. I would guess that this is a major player in my death wobble situation.
My first thought was to replace it all with new parts. But then looking at the cost of all the various linkages, the dampener, etc, I began to wonder if there are rebuild kits for this. Does anyone know? Any recommendations?
Also, is it tough to replace the bearings? Thanks!
The ball joints in the draglink, tie rods, tie rod ends, Pitman Arm (if applicable) are swagged in, so there is no way to remove and replace them.
Because of this, no one...not Ford, nor autoparts stores sells these ball joints separately.
Because of this, no one...not Ford, nor autoparts stores sells these ball joints separately.
[QUOTE=NumberDummy;8093209]The ball joints in the draglink, tie rods, tie rod ends, Pitman Arm (if applicable) are swagged in, so there is no way to remove and replace them.
As Bill stated, these parts need replaced. As far as Verticle movement....jack up one side of the truck. Grab the wheel and if there is any play, you need to adjust or replace the wheel bearings. I say this because if you have just now noticed the wear of the the tie rod's and drag link, you probably have other issues. The next thing, while the wheel is about two inches above the floor, place a steel prybar under it and lift up while someone watches your ball joints. ANY movement whatsoever, I mean ANY movement, lateral, up/down, whatever, that partucular ball joint needs to be replaced as well.
As Bill stated, these parts need replaced. As far as Verticle movement....jack up one side of the truck. Grab the wheel and if there is any play, you need to adjust or replace the wheel bearings. I say this because if you have just now noticed the wear of the the tie rod's and drag link, you probably have other issues. The next thing, while the wheel is about two inches above the floor, place a steel prybar under it and lift up while someone watches your ball joints. ANY movement whatsoever, I mean ANY movement, lateral, up/down, whatever, that partucular ball joint needs to be replaced as well.
Thanks for the input.
I do have vertical play of the wheel when its jacked up. I'll definitely check out those ball joints. I had no idea there was a test for that.
After looking at steering components today, I am wondering if there is a big difference in quality/performance between the cheaper drag links,tie rods, etc and the more expensive versions? Thicker rods? Stronger metal? or is it just the brand names?
I do have vertical play of the wheel when its jacked up. I'll definitely check out those ball joints. I had no idea there was a test for that.
After looking at steering components today, I am wondering if there is a big difference in quality/performance between the cheaper drag links,tie rods, etc and the more expensive versions? Thicker rods? Stronger metal? or is it just the brand names?
You get what you pay for.
Many replacement parts sold in chain autoparts stores (Auto-Zone/Kragans/Shucks) are made in China.
I equate Chinese parts with oats. New quality oats can be bought in feed stores.
Used oats can be found on the road...after the horse passes by.
In other words, Chinese parts are a lotta horse dung.
You get what you pay for.
There are replaceable upper & lower ball joints in the spindles.
Many replacement parts sold in chain autoparts stores (Auto-Zone/Kragans/Shucks) are made in China.
I equate Chinese parts with oats. New quality oats can be bought in feed stores.
Used oats can be found on the road...after the horse passes by.
In other words, Chinese parts are a lotta horse dung.
You get what you pay for.
There are replaceable upper & lower ball joints in the spindles.
After looking at steering components today, I am wondering if there is a big difference in quality/performance between the cheaper drag links,tie rods, etc and the more expensive versions? Thicker rods? Stronger metal? or is it just the brand names?[/QUOTE]
I've had great luck with MOOG parts, TRW as well
I've had great luck with MOOG parts, TRW as well
Physicsguy, bearings are not difficult to replace but you will inadvertently learn a lot about your locking hubs. Also, you might as well replace the bearings if you're going to mess with the ball joints because you will have already done most of the work. You will need a specialty tool called a Spindle Nut Socket you can find at Autozone (link at bottom of post) It also helps if you have access to a press. There are many step by step guides on how to tear down your Dana 44 as far as you want on the internet but the basic process is as follows.
1) Dismount wheel/tire
2) Remove brake caliper (good time to check pads)
3) Use allen wrench to take off locking hub cover
4) Remove the snap ring from around the axle shaft. Remove the outer retaining ring in the recessed area of the hub housing with a couple of picks/small screw drivers (this sux sometimes). Remove locking mechanism of locking hub (you may need to screw a couple of your allen screws back into the mechanism to pull it out)
5) Use spindle nut socket to loosen and remove spindle nut (if this is very loose, it could be the source of the play)
6) Remove spindle nut washer with pick or screw driver
7) Once again use spindle nut socket to loosen and remove spindle nut (if this is very loose, it could be the source of the play)
8) The hub housing/rotor will slid off spindle (don't drop outer bearing and get it nasty if you plan on repacking/reusing)
9) Remove seal with a screw driver (be careful if you plan on reusing but most people do not recommend reusing this because it is so cheap)
10) Use a punch to knock out inner and out race. Save the bearings and races to compare part numbers with new ones.
This is where you do the necessary work to the ball joints. Both of which are removed through the bottom of the knuckle. One of which (can't remember which one) has a snap ring holding it on. Ball joints, of course, will need to be pressed back in. Remove the six nuts on the outside of the spindle. Remove the spindle with the use of a hammer and wedge. (Don't hit the spindle, especially where the bearing rides!) Pull the axle shaft out through the knuckle. Remove ball joint nuts. If they spin you will need to wedge something in there to stop this. (An impact wrench helps) Avoid hitting the ball joints, it's just bad practice. They can be removed through vibrations by hitting the knuckle in the right spot just like the tie rod.
Reverse order-
1) Re-installation requires pressing in the races. You can use the old races to do this but there are several methods. Using the old races on top of new ones, use a punch to install the races making sure the new races are being seated evenly and completely.
2) Don't forget to pack you new bearings (or clean and repack old bearing) before putting this back together.
3) Gently tap the seal back into place.
4) Slide hub housing with inner and outer races, packed inner bearing and seal installed onto the spindle. Slide packed outer bearing over spindle and into hub housing.
5) Compare both spindle nuts. The inner spindle nut is the one with the "nipple" on it. Reinstall spindle nut, with the nipple facing outward, carefully as to avoid cross threading and torque to really tight and back a little using the spindle nut tool. I've heard torque to 150 ft. lbs. There are many theories to the torque specs but you want to make sure the inner nut is seating the bearing in the race completely while allowing the rotor to spin relatively freely.
6) Reinstall the spindle nut washer with the key in the keyway on the axle shaft. Make sure the "nipple" on the inner spindle nut can be seen in one of the holes on the washer. If not, flip the washer over as the holes will be in a different spot. If this does not work, remove the washer and tighten the spindle nut slightly and retry.
7) Reinstall the outer spindle nut and torque to 70 ft. lbs. (I go by feel because I've done so many of these) Once again, there are different theories to torque specs. Hopefully someone will provide input from a shop book manual.
**At this point you can test for slop in the bearings (spindle nuts) and/or ball joints by attempting to move the hub housing up or down.
8) Reinstall the locking hub mechanism, outer retainer ring, axle shaft snap ring and locking hub cover with allen screws.
Done.
Hope this helps!
PS - If you're planning on doing any other kind of front end work in the future, (Warn or Mile Marker locking hubs, limited slip, locker, spool, gear swap, better axles) now would be a great time to do it! All the previously stated work is necessary in these types of upgrades.
AutoZone.com | SpindleNutSocket | 4ProngSpindleNutSocket
1) Dismount wheel/tire
2) Remove brake caliper (good time to check pads)
3) Use allen wrench to take off locking hub cover
4) Remove the snap ring from around the axle shaft. Remove the outer retaining ring in the recessed area of the hub housing with a couple of picks/small screw drivers (this sux sometimes). Remove locking mechanism of locking hub (you may need to screw a couple of your allen screws back into the mechanism to pull it out)
5) Use spindle nut socket to loosen and remove spindle nut (if this is very loose, it could be the source of the play)
6) Remove spindle nut washer with pick or screw driver
7) Once again use spindle nut socket to loosen and remove spindle nut (if this is very loose, it could be the source of the play)
8) The hub housing/rotor will slid off spindle (don't drop outer bearing and get it nasty if you plan on repacking/reusing)
9) Remove seal with a screw driver (be careful if you plan on reusing but most people do not recommend reusing this because it is so cheap)
10) Use a punch to knock out inner and out race. Save the bearings and races to compare part numbers with new ones.
This is where you do the necessary work to the ball joints. Both of which are removed through the bottom of the knuckle. One of which (can't remember which one) has a snap ring holding it on. Ball joints, of course, will need to be pressed back in. Remove the six nuts on the outside of the spindle. Remove the spindle with the use of a hammer and wedge. (Don't hit the spindle, especially where the bearing rides!) Pull the axle shaft out through the knuckle. Remove ball joint nuts. If they spin you will need to wedge something in there to stop this. (An impact wrench helps) Avoid hitting the ball joints, it's just bad practice. They can be removed through vibrations by hitting the knuckle in the right spot just like the tie rod.
Reverse order-
1) Re-installation requires pressing in the races. You can use the old races to do this but there are several methods. Using the old races on top of new ones, use a punch to install the races making sure the new races are being seated evenly and completely.
2) Don't forget to pack you new bearings (or clean and repack old bearing) before putting this back together.
3) Gently tap the seal back into place.
4) Slide hub housing with inner and outer races, packed inner bearing and seal installed onto the spindle. Slide packed outer bearing over spindle and into hub housing.
5) Compare both spindle nuts. The inner spindle nut is the one with the "nipple" on it. Reinstall spindle nut, with the nipple facing outward, carefully as to avoid cross threading and torque to really tight and back a little using the spindle nut tool. I've heard torque to 150 ft. lbs. There are many theories to the torque specs but you want to make sure the inner nut is seating the bearing in the race completely while allowing the rotor to spin relatively freely.
6) Reinstall the spindle nut washer with the key in the keyway on the axle shaft. Make sure the "nipple" on the inner spindle nut can be seen in one of the holes on the washer. If not, flip the washer over as the holes will be in a different spot. If this does not work, remove the washer and tighten the spindle nut slightly and retry.
7) Reinstall the outer spindle nut and torque to 70 ft. lbs. (I go by feel because I've done so many of these) Once again, there are different theories to torque specs. Hopefully someone will provide input from a shop book manual.
**At this point you can test for slop in the bearings (spindle nuts) and/or ball joints by attempting to move the hub housing up or down.
8) Reinstall the locking hub mechanism, outer retainer ring, axle shaft snap ring and locking hub cover with allen screws.
Done.
Hope this helps!
PS - If you're planning on doing any other kind of front end work in the future, (Warn or Mile Marker locking hubs, limited slip, locker, spool, gear swap, better axles) now would be a great time to do it! All the previously stated work is necessary in these types of upgrades.
AutoZone.com | SpindleNutSocket | 4ProngSpindleNutSocket
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[QUOTE=Kirbys73F100;8101405]Physicsguy, bearings are not difficult to replace but you will inadvertently learn a lot about your locking hubs. QUOTE]
Kirby, you should write Haynes and give them a lesson in technical writing. Awsome write up!
Rider
Kirby, you should write Haynes and give them a lesson in technical writing. Awsome write up!
Rider
Oh, and as for buying tie rods and drag links.. I can't help ya because mine are well walking less than a straight line... Makes driving on the street more exciting.
Time for hi-steer/cross over???
Time for hi-steer/cross over???
If you want your steering to stay within the adjustment the alignment gives it get the better parts. I sell MOOG and a lot of times the joints inside are a standard ball in socket with one MAJOR difference. The better parts have no metal to metal joints. They use a super dense polymer so they do not wear as easily. Plus they are manufactured to very specific tolerances the Chinese stuff not so much.
Do it! It's a great learning experience that doesn't take more than an afternoon if you have all your parts together. Plus, if you get fairly good at it like my brother and me, you can charge folks half what the shops do, do it in half the time and make some good side money. These are relatively the same procedures on '80-96 F150's (TTB Dana 44) and other Dana 44's.
If you want your steering to stay within the adjustment the alignment gives it get the better parts. I sell MOOG and a lot of times the joints inside are a standard ball in socket with one MAJOR difference. The better parts have no metal to metal joints. They use a super dense polymer so they do not wear as easily. Plus they are manufactured to very specific tolerances the Chinese stuff not so much.




I was proud of that write up, I don't normally have an opportunity to contribute to the forum with such depth. This is one case where
sometimes will leave you
Thanks for the props!