This will be interesting, since it is my first try at a photo upload. I recently changed jobs and moved to Tucson. So before leaving Mesa, I took my 48 F1 frame and cab over to Industrial Chassis to have Steve install one of his Dakota IFS front crossmembers. He did as well as straightening out my beat-up, 62 year old frame. I had him also add one of his tube center crossmembers with the adjustable, removable transmission crossmember.



When I posted about the Dakota crossmember install before, I had a request to post a picture. So here goes nothing.

Phil

 

Nope, it didn't work right. Here is the link to my SmugMug gallery.

Frame-Mods-Dakota-Crossmember - AZAV8's Photos

You should be able to see it there.

Phil

 

Looks good, somewhat similar to a MII.

dakota in f1.jpg

 

Thanks Phil

The Dakota was engineered for a Truck - could be a big handling factor.

I know of one on the road - unfortunetly the person is a whimp and won't push it at all.

 

Old F-1 Thanks for getting the picture posted, which I couldn't do.

Steve did a good job of straightening the frame. The front and rear crossmembers were lined up, but the center of the frame was offset to one side. There was also a twist to the frame. It was a mess and far from "pristine". He had to use his come-alongs and porta-power to get it straight. Steve installed one of his four-tube center crossmembers to hold it all straight. It is now stiff and won't twist which is what I need for the 938 pound 7.3l Powerstroke diesel I'm putting in. You can see the center crossmember if you look past the Dakota crossmember. The transmission removeable support is in the center. He puts in a slight "dog-leg" to the tube so you can remove it without spreading the big longitudinal tubes. Its a clamp-in type so its adjustable for different length transmissions. Very clever design.

The Dakota crossmember is cold-rolled steel, because the available hot-rolled is cheap crap with voids and inclusions. Terrible stuff. Its hard to see the quality of the welding in my photos, but Steve lays down beautiful beads. It's a quality product and its installed with the same eye for quality.

The Dakota is better than the Mustang II because the lower A-arm has two bushed connection points to the frame rail. The MII has a single bushed pivot with a sway rod. Also the Dakota is built for a truck not a sub-compact car.

I've been doing some research and I think I have found the stock Dodge van parts that will allow larger diameter disk rotors and 5 on 5.5" diameter bolt circle. Once I have that info confirmed, I will post it.

Phil

 

looks really good! post pictures when you fit in your 7.3!

 

Very clean install. Just as an aside, any MII type IFS install should only be done with a updated tubular wishbone lower A frame with 2 bushed pivots at the crossmember. IMHO, NEVER use one that uses the stamped single pivot and strutbar OEM lower control arm.

 

Spoken like a man with experience and knowledge about suspension systems, like I know you are.

Industrial Chassis makes their own tubular A-arms for the Dakota crossmember or you can use the stock arms off of the donor truck like I am doing.

Phil

 

The quality of the work looks great from the pictures. Your off to a solid start, would like to see a better picture of the center section. Keep the pictures coming.

 

I couldn't get a better one because the cab is on the frame. I'll see if I can get one from Steve of another car he has done. When I was there he had a scratch-built frame on the table he was doing for another customer which had the center,tubular crossmember in it.

Basically, the crossmember is four round tubes, two upper and two lower, which are connected by cross tubes. If you look in the posted picture, you can see the bottom tubes. They are welded perpendicular to the boxing plate, are smoothly bent back, run parallel to the frame rail and then bend back to the same frame rail. The uppers are the same arrangement. The two lower ones are about 18" apart so that you can fit just about any automatic trans between them, even a Turbo 400 with its offset pan. You can see the removable transmission tailshaft support in the picture. He makes it adjustable and removable. You can see the dogleg bend in the picture, which makes it possible to remove it from between the tubes once you remove the clamp bolts.

I'll work to get a picture from Steve so you can clearly see the whole crossmember. It is heck for stout and there is no twist to the frame once it is installed.

Phil

 

Very nice looking install..I'm a big fan of the tubular crossmember when considering Big Torque..and a big fan of Industrial Chassis,...your in good hands

Please keep us informed(with pics) when installing the control arms and the rest of the suspension..I'd really like to see the PSD and cab mods..thanks for sharing! Good Luck!

 

I would not necessarily agree about the "better" part. For your application with the diesel engine, I certianly wouldn't argue your choice. And the work you're having done looks to be first rate. But the notion that the MII front suspension design is inferior for use in our trucks because it was designed for a "sub-compact car" is incorrect. Bigger is not always better.

Consider the cars for which it was designed for. Take a Mustang II with the 302, automatic trans and air conditioning. That car pushed the scales at about 3500 pounds. And it had a 59% front weight bias. Does that sound anywhere close to what we see with an F-1/100? It was also engineered with the engine being right on top, or forward of, the axle centerline, and we typically set the engines back further in our trucks.

The chassis on the MII was made from stamped steel and spot welded together. A good MII suspension setup in the effies will start out with a good steel crossmember, very similar to the one built for your Dakota. Using an MII setup with tubular A arms is even stronger than it was originally designed. We're really only using the geometry, which was a very good design, and light years ahead of it's time. One may argue the spindles look small, but they are forged steel, not cast, as is the case with those found on Camaros, another popular front suspension conversion. Again, bigger is not necessarily better.

I'm a big fan of the Mustang II front suspension conversion, and I've done several of them. But I'm also not trying to start an arguement. Merely adding my opinion, and some food for thought.

Best of luck with your project. It is very cool.

Wayne

 

52 Merc,
I am not a big fan of MII front suspensions. It has its applications, but I don't think hot rod trucks is one. I don't get into arguments about stuff on forums because most people have their opinions and its usually hard to get them to change their minds. Everybody is entitled to their opiniion. I've been on enough forum threads where people have talked about the problems they have had with the MII. I know of some commercial MII products that are sold with the incorrect geometry. There are plenty of MII that have been installed incorrectly. For me, Steve's Dakota installation was the best choice.

Right now I have him pricing out a pedal mount/master cylinder bracket for the CPP hydraulic power assist master cylinder. It is a floor mount pedal with the pivot shaft passing through the frame rail and the master cylinder/hydraulic power assist on the outside of the frame rail. It leaves more space inside the rails for the transmission.

If you use the link to my SmugMug gallery, you can see more photos of the Dakota install and see more of the center crossmember.

Phil

 

Hey Phil
Do you think it's possible to keep the Flathead mounts with the Dakota Crossmember?

This thread is getting dangerous - good solid crossmember - possibility of keeping a 5x5.5 pattern - ? Original Flathead mounts. - oh those dirty dirty Darksiders

 

4tl8ford,
There MAY be enough room for the flathead frame mounts between the original front crossmember and the Dakota. I have a set of the flathead V8 frame mounts from a parts purchase I did a few years back. They may fit if the Dakota is not too far forward of the frame rail location for the motor mount. The frame is still at Industrial Chassis and the V8 motor mounts are in the storage unit here in Tucson buried deep in the back in a container. I won't be able to check until everything is at the new house here in Tucson.

If there is not enough room between the two crossmembers, you may be able to attach the front of the V8 frame mount to the original front crossmember and cut the back end to fit against the Dakota crossmember. Depending on the space you could cut the V8 mount at the curve and add plate between the old mount and the Dakota.

If you go to my second post and follow the link to my SmugMug gallery, there is a picture there which better shows the distance between the two crossmembers. It should be picture 009.

I trust this will help you answer your question.

I are NOT a dirty dirty darksider! One LITTLE group of parts not Ford and you accuse me of being a DARKSIDER! For Shame! Darksiders are those people who put those mouse motors in our fabulous Fords. My engine (7.3L Powerstroke) will be a Ford (well almost). International may have built it but Ford installed it!