Finding TDC to Install Distributor
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 892
Likes: 85
From: Western Massachusetts
Finding TDC to Install Distributor
Newly rebuild 223 six is still in the engine stand. It is really hard to turn over by hand. Didn't install the rocker arm yet because it would be even harder to turn over. Manifolds are on. I want to put the distributor in. How can I be sure I'm on TDC on the compression stroke? For some reason my timing cover does not have the timing pointer. The cover is the nice cast one, not the stamped one. I'm guessing I need to feel the lifters through the push rod holes on #1? Both should be in the "valves closed" position when I feel the piston top out using a wire through the plug hole?
Thanks
Bob
Thanks
Bob
Cargo Master
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,795
Likes: 129
From: Windermere Valley,B.C. Ca
Yep, sound tight though, put some oil in the cylinders. From a unreliable memory (and you will have to put two rocker arms on) half way through the firing order, (cylinder number three of the firing order), the piston is on the opposite stroke and the intake and exhaust valve are opening and closing so the rocker arms will rock at TDC of # 1. 
Post Fiend
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,641
Likes: 21
From: Poway, Ca.
Stupid question, but do you have the spark plugs out of it when you try to turn it over?
Oil or a little automatic transmission fluid in the cylinders works good too - just a squirt.
Here's what I do. Find the #1 cylinder and plug the spark hole with my thumb. Turn the engine over some. When you feel compression blowing your thumb off, get a 1/4 inch dowel about 2 feet long and put it in the spark plug hole until it rests on the piston and hold it straight up. Turn the engine over some more until the dowel stops coming up out of the hole. Close enough.
Oil or a little automatic transmission fluid in the cylinders works good too - just a squirt.
Here's what I do. Find the #1 cylinder and plug the spark hole with my thumb. Turn the engine over some. When you feel compression blowing your thumb off, get a 1/4 inch dowel about 2 feet long and put it in the spark plug hole until it rests on the piston and hold it straight up. Turn the engine over some more until the dowel stops coming up out of the hole. Close enough.
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 831
Likes: 1
From: San Antonio, Texas
Julie, correct me if I'm wrong, but with no rocker arms installed the valves would be closed at all times. You wouldn't be able to tell which stroke you were on. Without a timing indicator, you couldn't check that.( I guess you could get close if you knew approx where the indicatior would be located) Possibly drop a couple of pushrods on top of the lifters, turn the engine over and watch when both are down? The problem there is that without the valve springs assist, you may have to hold some pressure on the push rods to make sure the lifters are seated against the cam lobe. Seem that the engine shouldn't be that hard to rotate manually with the spark plugs out.
Gil
Gil
Cargo Master
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,795
Likes: 129
From: Windermere Valley,B.C. Ca
Here's what I do. Find the #1 cylinder and plug the spark hole with my thumb. Turn the engine over some. When you feel compression blowing your thumb off, get a 1/4 inch dowel about 2 feet long and put it in the spark plug hole until it rests on the piston and hold it straight up. Turn the engine over some more until the dowel stops coming up out of the hole. Close enough.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 15,882
Likes: 88
From: Durham NC
The exhaust valve would be open, or the lifter high in the bore in this case. Do you have the engine side inspection cover off? if so it should be real easy to watch the lifters go up and down, or watch the cam lobes thru the lifter bores if the lifters are not installed.
I too am concerned about the tightness of the engine. Did you assembly lube the bearings, cylinder walls, pistons when installing them, and verify the bearing clearances with plastigauge? With the sparkplugs out, the engine should turn over readily with just a box wrench or 4 way lug wrench on the front bolt.
I too am concerned about the tightness of the engine. Did you assembly lube the bearings, cylinder walls, pistons when installing them, and verify the bearing clearances with plastigauge? With the sparkplugs out, the engine should turn over readily with just a box wrench or 4 way lug wrench on the front bolt.
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 790
Likes: 0
From: Highland Village, TX
If its still on the stand and the oil pan is off, heres what I did. Turn it upside down and visually watch piston 1 while you crank it with a wrench. Put a mark on the block and balancer when at the top. Then the thumb over the plug hole trick Julie talked about to determine when you are on the up or down stroke. I also marked my distributor cap and housing so I would know when the rotor was on #1 plug and inserted the distributor so everything was at TDC markings. It doesn't have to be perfect, you'll adjust the timing after startup. Don't forget to burn in the cam right away unless you are running rollers.
I'd be a little more concerned with why is it hard to turn over? Something over torqued or bound etc. On the engine stand it should not be difficult to turn the crank with a wrench.
I'd be a little more concerned with why is it hard to turn over? Something over torqued or bound etc. On the engine stand it should not be difficult to turn the crank with a wrench.
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Post Fiend
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,641
Likes: 21
From: Poway, Ca.
Julie, correct me if I'm wrong, but with no rocker arms installed the valves would be closed at all times. You wouldn't be able to tell which stroke you were on. Without a timing indicator, you couldn't check that.( I guess you could get close if you knew approx where the indicatior would be located) Possibly drop a couple of pushrods on top of the lifters, turn the engine over and watch when both are down? The problem there is that without the valve springs assist, you may have to hold some pressure on the push rods to make sure the lifters are seated against the cam lobe. Seem that the engine shouldn't be that hard to rotate manually with the spark plugs out.
Gil
Gil
You would have to rotate the engine through a full firing sequence and note on which of the two "Piston toppings" (with the dowel) the cam was in a position where the cam lobes for the two #1 cylinder valves were both flat (or low) - (as opposed to eccentric) at the same time. I think that is the same only different as what AX said above.
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Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 892
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From: Western Massachusetts
AX, your right, the side cover off is the easiest way to see the lifters. Didn't think of that. Yes I use Sealed Power assembly lube on the bearings & lifter bores, Crane Cam lube (paste type) on the lifter faces/cam lobes and 30W oil on cyls, pistons etc. I used a very reputable small business machine shop. Owner told me the crank spun very nicely after grinding & align boring. I was meticulous about torques. Crank turned well during assembly. Stiffness developed when pistons were installed. Same shop had bored/honed to matched the pistons. Also balanced. Once I "break" it loose I can turn it over but not easily. After sitting say to the next day, it takes great effort to get it to move again.
Julie, yes I take the plugs out to rotate. I'll try the dowel but not sure if the geometry is right to allow it feel the piston top.
53Older, the pan is on & sealed. I am aware that I need to bring RPMs up immediately on first fire up so as not to ruin the new cam & lifters. Will also prelube by spinning the oil pump first. Thanks guys and gal.
Julie, yes I take the plugs out to rotate. I'll try the dowel but not sure if the geometry is right to allow it feel the piston top.
53Older, the pan is on & sealed. I am aware that I need to bring RPMs up immediately on first fire up so as not to ruin the new cam & lifters. Will also prelube by spinning the oil pump first. Thanks guys and gal.
Post Fiend
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,641
Likes: 21
From: Poway, Ca.
Hey Sosotwo...do we know you? Start a new thread and introduce yourself!
Welcome to FTE!
Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 892
Likes: 85
From: Western Massachusetts
Got it. The stick method and watching the lifters worked for finding TDC and determining the compression stroke. Also, I had to build an engine cradle and swap from the engine stand because the flywheel wouldn't fit without hitting the stand supports. Now with the flywheel on I am able to turn over the engine with a ring gear wrench I borrowed from a friend at work. Thanks
Bob
Bob
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