I have a 79 f150 with a 351 modified motor with a four speed. Can I swap a windsor motor in while keeping the 4 speed. Thanks in advance

 

You will need a different bell housing...motor mounts and towers

 

Do you have a complete motor?? Almost nothing is interchangable on these motors. I did the swap in mine. Some of the patrs were very hard to find.

 

I don't have the windsor yet, it sounds like it would just be easier to change the trans too.

 

What parts were hard to find?

 

the trans will be the same for both motors
just the bell has to change to match the block
you better get a complete motor as all the brackets will be different for the accesories.

it isnt a 'good' swap as you can make a ton more power with an M series angine if it is rebuilt to 400 and given TMI pistons

 

I hear a lot of bad things about the bottom ends of the modified engines so i figured I would go with a windsor. I am very familar with the windsor motors and their parts seem to be cheaper and easier to find.

 

This might help below for some questions you might have. i think if you got a proper timing setup and a cam you might be surprised.
if you convert to a 400 with pistons from a 400 and a crank from a 400 you might love this engine.

http://www.projectbronco.com/Technic...ical_index.htm

351M/400 Performance Build Up

look up the oiling issue in the link below.

Rumors & Myths

 

Dude, a windsor it a much better engine than an M. Holy cow.
Even if you just leave the windsor stock cubes. But you can always just buy an aftermarket 393 crank for $150, keep the stock 351w rods and use stock 302 pistons and you have a 393 windsor for next to nothing. Plus all the heads, cams etc available for the 5.0 Mustangs will fit the Windsor. Therefor the windsor has about the best aftermarket you could ask for and the M has like none. Plus the Ms have crap oiling systems and crap heads.

 

351m and the 400 get a bad rap but they dont deserve it. anyone who doubts the power of the m-block, try reading a little history.
High Performance Options for the 351M/400 Engine .: Articles
m-blocks after 1972 had emission controls that drastically reduced performance. a simple timing chain gear set change will go a long way in boosting power. 400s are easy and cheap to increase performance.

 

Towers are the same for 302/351W/351M. Been there, done that, no t-shirt though...

 

I just read all that, very interesting. But in the end it comes down to personal preference, experience and opinoin.

Here is where my opinion comes from. My uncle is a farmer, he has license on 5 pick up trucks at all times. In the 80's, early 90's. All 5 were 78/79 Fords. And it was not just the same 5. He'd buy one then sell one. There were probably more like 10 total. Plus my dad bought a 1979 F250 full time in 1983. Plus I have my 1977, bad experience with almost every single one.
My dads 79 was already on it's 2nd 351M when he got it, it was only 4 years old. The second was installed by Ford and already had no oil pressure. My dad bought it from a farmer about 2 miles away. He got it home and did the high volume oil pump with new main and rod bearings. It lasted about 500 miles and got 7mpg. At that time my dad did a total budget 429 swap. It was a junk yard 429 that he got for $75. He made all his own exhaust, kept the stock 4 barrel intake etc. The only thing he bought was L&L mounts. He made all the accessory brackets etc. He probably had $400 or less in the whole job. This thing totally ripped. It was full time 4x4 and would get squirrelly on pavement from a dead stop. It also went from 7mpg to 9mpg. For under $400, you're not touching that performance with an M block. He still has the truck and over 25 years later that $75 Junk yard 429 runs great and has tons of oil pressure.

Out of my uncles pick ups he has done main and rod bearings with a high volume pump more times that I can count. At least 5.
Right now he only has one 78 that he still uses. Its a F150 full time with a 400. He bought the truck in the late 80s. On the test drive all seemed well but by the time it got home it was good and warm and had no oil pressure. He did the mains, rods, pump and it is till going to this day! But it is the most gutless POS I have ever seen. I witnessed the truck driving through a very small ditch on a feild road. It didn't have the power to get through in high range. It had to be down shifted into low just for the extra power and it still barely made it.

My uncle also has a 1977.5. F250, stick 4x4. He got it in 83 and the 400 was done already. He swapped in a 400 from a 1971 LTD so it had the good compression. I was actually going to get the truck from him. I even titled it in my name. I still thought that 400 was weak and was planning a 460 swap.

Then when I bought my 1977 in 2005. My cousin was with me, the oil pressure gauge was not moving. He said there was no way the gauge was working so I bought the truck, it ran like crap too. I only paid $700 and the body was nice for the year. Well the gauge was working, it really had no oil pressure and also #7 cyl was low on compression. I bought the truck as something to haul dirt bikes on a budget so this was a bummer. I was actually going to put a 300 6 in it because I had one laying around but instead I spend $3500 on a 460. Thats all parts plus $450 in machine work. Couldn't be happier. Crazy oil pressure and as you can guess from the price in parts it runs great. I can bark 4th gear at 90mph with 33 inch tires. Thats just the tip of the ice berg of what this thing can do. Yeah a 335 series could run good for that kind of money but thats not my point here, read above for the point.
And with all my uncles trucks I actually can list a lot more but this is long enough. Also the thing about changing the timing chain applys to the 429/460 too, they have retarded cam timing as well (not the very first ones though).

Yes a big block weighs more but thats not even what this thread is about. Its about going to a Windsor. All the "tricks" for the Ms listed above aren't gonna hold a candle to a 393w with high compression and trick flow heads etc. And that's not an expensive engine to build either. Or even a set of GT40P heads from an Explorer which can be had for $100 and flow extremely well for what they are.

 

i understand what your saying and partially agree with you. IMO a 393w is a serious engine, but for a simple swap and mild performance upgrades i would go with a 400. in op's case it would have the same bell housing and all the accessories would work with it or he could just change the rotating assembly and address some of the m-blocks problems already listed.

 

I don't think something was right with those engines. I know some 351m/400 that have 200,000 miles on them and still going. They do have problems with oil pressure from the way they are designed but not at 500 miles. Sounds like yall just had a streak of bad luck. The cam and timing sets on these engines really hurt them on performance. New timing set and an aftermarket cam and these engines can become beasts with no other changes.

 

"All the "tricks" for the Ms listed above aren't gonna hold a candle to a 393w with high compression and trick flow heads etc."

You never said anything in your first post about wanting to go fast. You really need torque in a big heavy truck not HP. If you want low down pulling power that is where the 351m/400 will stomp the 393.