Okay guys this might be a stupid question but i have to ask what is an SAS Suspension and what are its benefits over the Twin I Beam or whatever suspension our trucks have. also what all is needed to swap over to the SAS. And My final question is does the truck have to be lifted to change over to an SAS Suspension. Since i am having to replace tie rod ends and ball joints and shocks i figured i would ask about this suspension because i have seen several people talk about swaping over but i never understood why are what the benefit was. thanks in advance and sorry about the stupid question. also i tried the search feature but i still dont understand so thats why i am asking.

 

SAS or solid axle suspension i guess they say that they are stronger [less likly to break the axles] every1 will say go D60 or one tons but if you want a fairly simple swap find a 78 79 f150 they will have a solid d44 and you can swap most parts over. im sure others will have a little better info than this im thinking about doing it to my truck but looking into a cummins swap also so we'll see
theres also a great thread over on the off road section here is the link so his swap
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/840571-my-sas.html

 

why thank you

what are you using this truck for, a SAS takes a fair amount of time and technical know how and also a fair bit of money...definitely not for everyone, i would highly suggest this swap for those who do lots of offroading at least at intermittent levels and are running bigger tires (35" and up)

main reasons for this swap are the strength because they have 1 less u-joint on the axle shaft AND there is a point on the TTB shaft where it thins out quite a bit and becomes a weak point, they also have better ground clearance than a TTB, the solid axle will ride a bit rougher on the roads but they handle better and the steering is much better, they also handle gravel better apparently

you have to lift AT LEAST 4" to make the swap easy, any less and you engine x-member becomes are big problem, even at 4" its tricky, most people go at least 6"

78/79 d44 axles are easiest and you need: entire exle (shafts spindles and knuckles) lower coil buckets (and uppers if you prefer, not necessary) radius arms and brackets, trac bar and for this you need to build a bracket, coil springs for that axle (78-79), and brakes for the 78-79 (calipers, pads, lines) everything else is reusable from the TTB: brake rotor, hub assembly, gears (if needed), upper coil buckets (again you can use the 78-79 buckets which can be moved down/forward on the frame to add lift)

 

No offense to anyone at all, but the quoted language, above, is not true about a SAS--at least, as far as on-road handling and steering are concerned. (I can't comment about the off-road advantages of the SAS).

The TTB is a form of independent suspension (in this case, the front, or IFS for short). An independent suspension, by virtue of it's being "independent," will handle better, on the road, if by "handle" you mean hold the road better and more safely. The reason is, that a disturbance on one side does not directly effect the contact patch on the other side, (as it will on a SAS) because, again, each side can move independent of the other--at least until you approach the extremes of suspension deflection.

For the reason given above, I also could not agree that the SAS would have steering that is "much better" than the TTB. In fact, by definition, the SAS would have to steer worse, due to the SAS's inferior roadholding ability, as compared to an IFS. Again, with a SAS, a bump hit on one side directly affects the contact patch of the tire on the other side, as the axle on the bump side is a solid piece and therefore changes the orientation of the non-bump's side, to the road.

For roads--IFS (the TTB, in Ford's specific case) is superior.
For off-road--apparently, the SAS is preferred, for the reasons others have given in this thread. I personally cannot vouch for the SAS's superiority off-road, but I can say that the TTB (i.e., IFS) is safer and better handling (and riding) than a SAS.

OTOH, certainly, the SAS's fewer moving parts means less to wear out and/or break, as has been stated by others.

I will also acknowledge that the TTB is definitely more difficult (read expensive) to align properly--in fact, some shops won't do them (and others won't do them properly). And people that don't have this done correctly will also complain of increased tire wear, with the TTB. I haven't any problems with TTB's and tire wear, however--and I've found that once properly aligned (by a shop that does TTB's regularly) they tend to STAY aligned.

I would also argue that the TTB rides better than a SAS, for the reasons given above. On this last point, the original owner of my '97 F-250 swears the TTB in the '97 F-250 (OBS) it rides and handles better than his 2009 F-250 with the SAS. I haven't driven both trucks so I cannot comment on this, but I pass it on FWIW.

Hope this helps.

 

the steering on a solid axle is better because the wheels don't toe in when you are flexed all the way which is a reason why ttb setups suck and your camber doesn't change when you flex both wheels the same with a solid axle

and you know someone who did a solid axle swap to a 09 f-250??? how much money do they have lol

 

1966Tbird,

Please see the bolded text of your quote, immediately above.

As I made clear in my original post (or, at least I thought I did) I was talking about ON-street handling ONLY--typically, one is not "flexed all the way" on the street, so while what you say about the SAS's steering being "better" may apply to OFF-road, as I said, I was speaking strictly about ON-road.

If you re-read my original post, you'll see what I'm talking about. Here is the first sentence of my earlier post: Unless, of course, you are frequently crashing to the bump-stops (i.e., being at "full-flex") in your ON-street driving? Me...not so much.

And re: this, below:

Actually, I think his truck is a 2008 (I know I said 2009, earlier). Anyway, it came with the SAS, because Ford went back to the SAS (believe it or not) in the late model F-250's and F-250's. I guess it was time to revisit the late '50's and early '60's, at FoMoCo?

Big Six

 

Just to be a nit, SAS usually means solid axle swap, not suspension. So a truck that came from the factory with a solid axle isn't referred to as a SAS truck.

 

Andy,

You're not being "a nit." But you are actually reading closely, which I definitely appreciate! LOL

I was not aware of that particular nuance, given that the "S" in "IFS" does mean Independent Front Suspension, not Independent Front "Swap."

But if you say so, I'll believe you. I am not among the hordes who covet a beam axle like their ancestors had. I realize they're stronger, with less parts to break, but I am not a big off-roader. For me, I appreciate the superior road holding and ride of the TTB over the solid axle. I just drive on the road waaaay more than I do off-road.

But thanks for the clarification on the "S" in SAS--good to know.

Perhaps you could clear something else up for me?

Why is it that the superior articulation of a TTB, as compared to a solid axle, is not welcomed, in off-road circles? Is it just that the simplicity and greater strength of the solid axle outweigh the greater articulation of the TTB (given that it is an IFS design?)

Because I know OFF-roaders will actually disconnect their sway bars to attain greater articulation, for rock-crawling, etc..., even with a solid axle. So one would think the (even) greater articulation of the TTB (over the solid axle) would be a big plus, no?

Thanks,

Big Six

 

BIGSIX1,

I guess I am with you on this one. What got me to asking the question in the first place is that i am currently having to replace the ball joints, tie rod ends, drag link and shocks because the previouse owner was rough on my truck and it doesn't ride so great you hit a little bump it feels like you hit a beached whale after taking it to my mechanic he said i needed to rebuild the front suspension. and i thought that if the sas was a better design i would go for it. However i dont really care to much for a Really lifted truck and going 6 inches of lift is alot and since if i go offroad its usually on a country gravel road ( not into the rock crawling thing) ill stay with what i got.
Sorry if this post caused any hostilties or hard feelings but like i said i didnt know and thought i would ask.

 

The TTB axle is used in some offroad circles, mostly desert baja racing where the huge articulation you get from it is really important. I think for most other offroading, the superior strength of a solid axle outweighs the benefits of the articulation of the TTB.

I rarely go offroad either, and I like the fact that my Bronco has the TTB. A solid axle would really screw up the ride quality - what little there is of it. The TTB works absolutely fantastic for the majority of the people who own one. It's the niche crowd that wants the solid axle.

Usually 6" is required in doing a SAS, because the front differential needs to clear the engine crossmember.

 

thanks andy was just checking all my options. I found a complete kit with all my tie rods, ball joints and drag link from broncograveyard.com for $149 plus shipping/handling
i think i am going to go that right because they sell it as a kit

 

That's not bad. Who makes the parts?

The steering stuff is easy to replace. You will need a pitman arm puller though, but most parts stores rent them.

The ball joints are fairly involved, but definitely doable if you have the right tools, space to do it, and lots of patience. When you do the ball joints, check the axle u-joints and replace them if they are seized. While you already have everything apart is an excellent time to check/replace as necessary.

This link will help you when it comes time to do the work: http://www.off-road.com/trucks4x4/ar....jsp?id=198389

 

According to the advertisment either they are built by broncograveyard or they are built for broncograveyard. it doesnt say which one. but for $149 dollars and the fact that broncograveyard has a good reputation sounds like a deal to me

 

im not sure on the superior articulation statement of the TTB... ive seen guys running solid axles with amazing flex vs. their old TTB unit, you have to remember when you SAS a truck you change coils and rad arms and the solid axles rad arms are much longer than a TTB i would think this would accept more articulation than the shorter rad arm of the TTB.

also with solid axles, as one side goes up, it forces the other side town creating even traction, this is not true with TTB or IFS for obvious reasons.

the ride quality can go up OR down depending what coils you use, but no matter the coils but most claim the solid axle is better on gravel washboards and on gravel roads in general

the steering of the TTB does not play well with mud, the steering wheel is never in the same position after a good offroading trip, this is another reason why SAS steering is better

solid axles are easier to align and tend to stay aligned longer and they wear evenly, i know most TTBs do also, my old TTB was fine with this and was also aligned fairly well, but there are alot of places that cant properly do TTB, and bad alignment = uneven tire wear, depending on the shops in your area i guess

TTB axles have issues with bigger tires and/or lift kits due to the toe in as the hub gets further from the frame causing uneven tire wear again, and they dont stand up well to tires 35" or bigger, well not so much the height as the width, 12.50s are really hard on TTBs, my TTB only had 31x10.50s so this was not an issue for me...but it would have been

end of my defense...

you said you never do anything serious in 4 wheel drive and are not running big tires...stick with the TTB for sure

 

Offroading is fun i like going to my mom and dads and going through the gravel roads and the creeks because the scenery is beautiful. I dont rock crawl or any of that. Not that i dont appreciate how much fun it would be but my self i dont really get into it. Another thing is i am rolling stock right now maybe on down the road i might change my mind. however i appreciate everyones input and thoughts thanks for helping answer my question.