Notices
Garage & Workshop Tips & Ideas for the garage or workshop. No Truck Tech Discussion   

Electrical outlet questions

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Sep 4, 2009 | 01:42 AM
  #1  
Super Steve's Avatar
Super Steve
Thread Starter
|
Laughing Gas
20 Year Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 904
Likes: 0
From: PHOENIX
Electrical outlet questions

I am changing 3 220v receptacles in my garage so I can plug my new welder in. The welder has a NEMA 6-50R plug so I bought 3 new NEMA 6-50R receptacles (and one new NEMA 6-50R plug for my old arc welder so it can be plugged into the new receptacles).
The NEMA 6-50R receptacles have 3 prongs.
My old receptacles had four.
The wires to the old receptacles were, Red, Black, White, and one naked copper.
Which is the ground and what do I do with the naked one?
The NEMA 6-50R receptacles call for a green to be the ground in the center. I don't have any greens, but a white one goes to the center prong in the old receptacle so is tha ground and the red and black hot?
I don't like electrical very much but I would like to learn.
 
Reply
Old Sep 4, 2009 | 05:14 AM
  #2  
ArdWrknTrk's Avatar
ArdWrknTrk
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 39
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Club FTE Silver Member

Red and black are hot, white is neutral and bare is ground.
 
Reply
Old Sep 4, 2009 | 10:18 AM
  #3  
Deluxe05's Avatar
Deluxe05
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,617
Likes: 4
From: Denver, Co
Club FTE Silver Member

Here is a link to Lowe's "How To" article for installing 220V outlets:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...220outlet.html

Between Home Depot's, Lowe's, and DIY Network's web sites, I think you can find write-ups & videos covering most things that any home owner would be willing to undertake.
 
Reply
Old Sep 4, 2009 | 12:06 PM
  #4  
Super Steve's Avatar
Super Steve
Thread Starter
|
Laughing Gas
20 Year Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 904
Likes: 0
From: PHOENIX
The lowes site is confusing me. It says some appliances only require 2 hots and a ground(no neutral ?, but in the picture it shows hot, neutral, and ground. Wouldn't that only be 110v?
Since the receptacles I have are only 3 prong, do I not use the neutral? Use two hots and a ground?
 
Reply
Old Sep 4, 2009 | 01:13 PM
  #5  
Ford_Six's Avatar
Ford_Six
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 18,488
Likes: 22
From: The Big, Oregon
Club FTE Gold Member
I think the neutral and ground are combined, like on a dryer.
 
Reply
Old Sep 4, 2009 | 02:07 PM
  #6  
Deluxe05's Avatar
Deluxe05
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,617
Likes: 4
From: Denver, Co
Club FTE Silver Member

I think you can/should leave the neutral completely disconnected. Lowe's instruction step #4 states that if you are only using a three pronged plug that you can skip the step...which tells you to connect the neutral (white) wire. While they do not tell you to cap the wire & leave it disconnected, they also do not tell you to connect it anywhere else.


Here is my overly crude explanation (as I understand it). The electric company sends out 220 triple phase. The three phases of ~220V current are ready to be split out to three different wires before being handed off to your house. Somewhere between the pole and the utility meter, one of the phases is generally blocked/dropped...however in the hell they do that. Depending on where your house sits & how the electric provider has your neighborhood setup, you share a phase with each neighbor. When your house is wired, the standard wiring & colors are used so that there is no question which are hot & neutral wires.

Hypothetical example, I will just call the phases 1, 2, and 3, and I will refer to houses A, B, and C...with B being our/your house. House A would get phases 1 & 2...so the third wire would be neutral. House B would get phases 2 & 3...first wire being neutral. And, House C would get phases 1 & 3...with the second wire being neutral.


A buddy of mine--with an electrical degree--went into an explanation of why/how neutral is different from ground & how that plays into how electric motors, transformers, etc. are built, but that explanation made my head hurt a little bit.
 
Reply
Old Sep 4, 2009 | 02:30 PM
  #7  
Deluxe05's Avatar
Deluxe05
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,617
Likes: 4
From: Denver, Co
Club FTE Silver Member

Doing a bit of researching, there seems to be some variances in answers....but...I did find that connecting the ground & the neutral/natural wires can only be done at the breaker box itself. Anywhere else, and it breaks National Electric Code.

It is crucial that the ground is connected to the third (likely rounded) plug of the 220V outlet. This screw/push-hole should be green, have some lettering to indicate that it is specifically for ground, or have the three, parallel, horizontal lines to indicate ground.

That seems to lend credence to putting a wire nut on the neutral (to cap it) & leaving it disconnected.




Kind of glad that I looked that up. I have been contemplating something similar, and I found a decent article on what the "professional" suggestion was for that situation.
 
Reply
Old Sep 4, 2009 | 06:24 PM
  #8  
Super Steve's Avatar
Super Steve
Thread Starter
|
Laughing Gas
20 Year Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 904
Likes: 0
From: PHOENIX
Originally Posted by Deluxe05
It is crucial that the ground is connected to the third (likely rounded) plug of the 220V outlet. This screw/push-hole should be green, have some lettering to indicate that it is specifically for ground, or have the three, parallel, horizontal lines to indicate ground.
I just finished and did not do this.
I hooked the red and blacks to the outside blades and the white neutral to the center rounded blade. I did not use the bare copper ground wire.
It worked fine with both welders, but I will research some more and disconnect the white neutral, leave it off, and connect the little bare copper ground wire, if need be.
 
Reply
FTE Stories

Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts

story-0

10 Ugly Ford Trucks That We Still Kinda Love

 Joe Kucinski
story-1

10 Things Every Truck Owner NEEDS (2026 Edition)

 Michael S. Palmer
story-2

Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalyptic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath

 Verdad Gallardo
story-3

Top 10 Most Expensive Ford Trucks Ever Sold on Bring a Trailer

 Joe Kucinski
story-4

2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)

 Brett Foote
story-5

Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies

 Joe Kucinski
story-6

AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make

 Brett Foote
story-7

Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!

 Michael S. Palmer
story-8

Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home

 Verdad Gallardo
story-9

10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!

 Joe Kucinski
Old Sep 4, 2009 | 07:51 PM
  #9  
megawatt00's Avatar
megawatt00
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,144
Likes: 11
From: Rochdale MA
Club FTE Gold Member
The neutral and the ground terminate from the same point in your main electrical panel. For a welder a 3 wire outlet is fine. For an appliance such as an electric dryer the NEC mandates that a 4 wire outlet to be used. This is because the electric motor that spins the drum is 110V and for safety reasons you do not want the motor to use the grouund as the neutral source. It has been done for years and due to some accidents it was changed.
 
Reply
Old Sep 4, 2009 | 07:57 PM
  #10  
Super Steve's Avatar
Super Steve
Thread Starter
|
Laughing Gas
20 Year Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 904
Likes: 0
From: PHOENIX
So do I use the ground or the neutral???
 
Reply
Old Sep 5, 2009 | 12:52 AM
  #11  
ford2go's Avatar
ford2go
Cargo Master
20 Year Member
Photogenic
Liked
Loved
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,476
Likes: 224
From: Frequently frozen MN
I'm far from the expert that megawatt is, but the ground should go to a ground screw in any metallic part.

The ground is there so that any hot wire that hits a metal part will blow the breaker, and there will not be any voltage on an exposed metal part.

If the round pin on the welder side gets connected to the case, then you should wire it to the ground and not the neutral. In any normal situation, it probably doesn't matter, but I think that would be the correct way.

Perhaps megawatt can enlilghten us on this.
 
Reply
Old Sep 9, 2009 | 12:20 PM
  #12  
megawatt00's Avatar
megawatt00
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,144
Likes: 11
From: Rochdale MA
Club FTE Gold Member
Originally Posted by ford2go
I'm far from the expert that megawatt is, but the ground should go to a ground screw in any metallic part.

The ground is there so that any hot wire that hits a metal part will blow the breaker, and there will not be any voltage on an exposed metal part.

If the round pin on the welder side gets connected to the case, then you should wire it to the ground and not the neutral. In any normal situation, it probably doesn't matter, but I think that would be the correct way.

Perhaps megawatt can enlilghten us on this.
Sorry guys I spaced out this post. You are 100% correct here. If inside the welder the, we will call it the non hot wire, goes to the case or if a jumper is installed from where that wire terminates, and goes to the case then use the ground wire as the 3rd wire.
 
Reply
Old Sep 10, 2009 | 01:30 PM
  #13  
Super Steve's Avatar
Super Steve
Thread Starter
|
Laughing Gas
20 Year Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 904
Likes: 0
From: PHOENIX
Originally Posted by megawatt00
Sorry guys I spaced out this post. You are 100% correct here. If inside the welder the, we will call it the non hot wire, goes to the case or if a jumper is installed from where that wire terminates, and goes to the case then use the ground wire as the 3rd wire.
I know for a fact that it does on my Lincoln 225 Arc welder. I switched the cord out for a much longer one and it has the two hots (black, white) and a green that goes to the case.
Now the new welder that will also use the outlets, I am not sure about. I haven't taken it apart, yet...
 
Reply
Old Sep 10, 2009 | 06:51 PM
  #14  
Super Steve's Avatar
Super Steve
Thread Starter
|
Laughing Gas
20 Year Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 904
Likes: 0
From: PHOENIX
Ok.
I figured it all out.
At the electrical panel, on the left edge is a vertical strap with all the naked solid core copper "ground wires" going to it.
On the right edge is a vertical strap with all the white "neutral wires" going to it.
The "ground" strap is connected to the "neutral" strap by a horozontal strap.
So they all connect together at the box.
So what is the difference?
Is the "ground" wire preferred because it is a naked?

[/IMG]
 
Reply
Old Sep 10, 2009 | 07:33 PM
  #15  
frankbank's Avatar
frankbank
Freshman User
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
The only spot in a residential electric service that the grounded conductor(white)and the grounding conductor(green or bare) are connected is in the service switch (which can be in the electric panel).This is to help a circuit breaker trip in a minimal amount of time(6 cycles or .1 of 1 second I believe).
The reason you have black white and green on a 220 v welder is that flexible cord comes in standard colors for the inner conductors.2 cond. bla+wh,3 cond. bla+wh+green
4 cond. bla+wh+red+green.
 
Reply



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:22 PM.

story-0
10 Ugly Ford Trucks That We Still Kinda Love

Slideshow: 10 ugly Ford trucks that we still kinda love.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-06-03 09:51:16


VIEW MORE
story-1
10 Things Every Truck Owner NEEDS (2026 Edition)

Slideshow: the best gifts for dads & grads

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-06-03 10:59:05


VIEW MORE
story-2
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalyptic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath

Slideshow: Called the Fortress, the 850-horsepower pickup combines Raptor underpinnings with military-inspired features, survival equipment, and a starting price of $285,000.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-06-03 11:38:36


VIEW MORE
story-3
Top 10 Most Expensive Ford Trucks Ever Sold on Bring a Trailer

Slideshow: 10 most expensive Ford trucks ever sold on Bring a Trailer.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-27 16:24:34


VIEW MORE
story-4
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)

Here's everything that has changed for the latest model year.

By Brett Foote | 2026-05-27 16:17:28


VIEW MORE
story-5
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies

Slideshow: Top 10 Ford truck tragedies.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-18 19:34:33


VIEW MORE
story-6
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make

And it might be even better than that.

By Brett Foote | 2026-05-18 19:26:42


VIEW MORE
story-7
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!

Slideshow: Does lowering an F-150 Lobo RUIN the ride quality?

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-05-18 19:20:37


VIEW MORE
story-8
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home

Slideshow: Ford's bizarre fishing-themed Explorer concept has resurfaced after spending decades largely forgotten.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-12 18:07:46


VIEW MORE
story-9
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!

Slideshow: The 10 best Ford truck engines we miss the most.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-12 13:09:47


VIEW MORE