Do you need a commerical liscense.....
Senior User
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 387
Likes: 1
From: Bald Knob AR
You certainly did your research on this but on your other post you refered to winning a trophy, feed or a saddle as conditions met to require you to have a CDL, providing your vehicle does meet that size. Now looking at your recent post, it mentions winning money, sponsership and tax write offs. Maybe I missed it but no where does it mentioned those items, trophies, feed etc. Very interesting stuff. I do horse shows and see rigs that do qualify for a CDL but when I start talking to the owners of the larger rigs, they don't have one. I'm also 32 yrs in the heavy hauling world and the line you wrote "Also, if they want you, they have ways to get you you have probable never heard of so just be careful" could'nt be more true.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,433
Likes: 1
From: Apex, N.C.
stalwart, even though you aren't commercial it would be a good idea to check the state laws in the states you are traveling in. For example in N.C. according to G.S.20-118.3, you would be required by law to enter a weigh station.
G.S.20-118.3~Any person operating a vehicle or a combination of vehicles having a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more or transporting hazardous materials that is required to be placarded under 49 CFR~171-180 must enter a permanant weighstation or temporary inspection or weigh site as directed by duly erected signs or an electronic transponder for the purpose of being screened for compliance, or weighed, or inspected.
Here is another example of people that don't have a clue. Very unfortunate, but it happens all the time. They are blaming all the problems on a picky N.C. patrolman, however if they would read the federal regulations, they would see the basis on his findings. The guy in this link maybe able to beat the commercial vehicle charge, however his rig is not an rv.
Reading the thread I can't believe some of the things they believe. One says you can have a rig 90' long in N.C. now. If someone here know about this statue, please point it out to me.
http://www.promodzone.com/showthread.php?t=17013
G.S.20-118.3~Any person operating a vehicle or a combination of vehicles having a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more or transporting hazardous materials that is required to be placarded under 49 CFR~171-180 must enter a permanant weighstation or temporary inspection or weigh site as directed by duly erected signs or an electronic transponder for the purpose of being screened for compliance, or weighed, or inspected.
Here is another example of people that don't have a clue. Very unfortunate, but it happens all the time. They are blaming all the problems on a picky N.C. patrolman, however if they would read the federal regulations, they would see the basis on his findings. The guy in this link maybe able to beat the commercial vehicle charge, however his rig is not an rv.
Reading the thread I can't believe some of the things they believe. One says you can have a rig 90' long in N.C. now. If someone here know about this statue, please point it out to me.
http://www.promodzone.com/showthread.php?t=17013
I found it, the bill to authorize 90' motorsports vehicle combination lengths on North Carolina Highways. Became effective 4/1/09
http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2009/B.../PDF/H69v1.pdf
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 23,174
Likes: 1,678
From: Stephensville WI
I think one of the problems here is people are confusing state non-CDL license (such as the IL non-commercial Class A license) with the CDL Class A license. They are not the same thing. Not all states require additional licensing for non-commercial vehicles over the 26k limit.
The Feds have mandated the minimum standards for the various CDL classes. A state cannot lower those standards, like allowing a school bus driver (well over 16 passengers) to operate without a CDL. They can, however, add additional rules, like maybe lowering the requirement to 10 passengers.
The Feds have mandated the minimum standards for the various CDL classes. A state cannot lower those standards, like allowing a school bus driver (well over 16 passengers) to operate without a CDL. They can, however, add additional rules, like maybe lowering the requirement to 10 passengers.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,433
Likes: 1
From: Apex, N.C.
stalwart, even though you aren't commercial it would be a good idea to check the state laws in the states you are traveling in. For example in N.C. according to G.S.20-118.3, you would be required by law to enter a weigh station.
G.S.20-118.3~Any person operating a vehicle or a combination of vehicles having a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more or transporting hazardous materials that is required to be placarded under 49 CFR~171-180 must enter a permanant weighstation or temporary inspection or weigh site as directed by duly erected signs or an electronic transponder for the purpose of being screened for compliance, or weighed, or inspected.
Here is another example of people that don't have a clue. Very unfortunate, but it happens all the time. They are blaming all the problems on a picky N.C. patrolman, however if they would read the federal regulations, they would see the basis on his findings. The guy in this link maybe able to beat the commercial vehicle charge, however his rig is not an rv.
Reading the thread I can't believe some of the things they believe. One says you can have a rig 90' long in N.C. now. If someone here know about this statue, please point it out to me.
http://www.promodzone.com/showthread.php?t=17013
G.S.20-118.3~Any person operating a vehicle or a combination of vehicles having a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more or transporting hazardous materials that is required to be placarded under 49 CFR~171-180 must enter a permanant weighstation or temporary inspection or weigh site as directed by duly erected signs or an electronic transponder for the purpose of being screened for compliance, or weighed, or inspected.
Here is another example of people that don't have a clue. Very unfortunate, but it happens all the time. They are blaming all the problems on a picky N.C. patrolman, however if they would read the federal regulations, they would see the basis on his findings. The guy in this link maybe able to beat the commercial vehicle charge, however his rig is not an rv.
Reading the thread I can't believe some of the things they believe. One says you can have a rig 90' long in N.C. now. If someone here know about this statue, please point it out to me.
http://www.promodzone.com/showthread.php?t=17013
OK, I need to stand down and make a correction and an apology on the above post. after making a phone call, and a couple of e-mails, seems this guy may have a chance.(I sure hope so) The federal government now leaves it all up to the individual states on what is a truck/toter/moter-home. The reason I checked into this is because the federal law link is no longer valid and I was told it was repealed.
This is another fine example as mentioned by another poster as to why we need uniform laws from state to state. If someone can register their truck/toter home as a motor home in their home state and pull their race car with it, then it should be legal in all states.
Sure is nice to have friends in high places that stay up all night!!!
Cargo Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,752
Likes: 5
From: Stillwater, OK
Oh contrair! Federal regulation 390.3 states the exemptions from a CDL. Exemption 390.3. f3 says (f)(3) The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise;
Interpretation questions for 390.3.
Question 21: Does the exemption in §390.3(f)(3) for the ‘‘occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise’’ apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?
Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: [i](1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant[i]to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject.
Basically what that means is, if you have winnings (winnings are required to be reported to the IRS as an income), you have used that vehicle as a furtherance of a commercial enterprise therefore CDL is required. Just because you are not being paid directly for hauling does not exempt you from commercial status. Take Wal Mart for example. They do not haul anything for hire. They are a private carrier but they use their trucks to haul their products which they sale for profit. That puts them in commercial status.
That also means you cannot haul your trackhoe, dozer, dirt or anything else that belongs to you to any place where it will be used for commerce even tho you are not gettin paid for hauling without a CDL.
Interpretation questions for 390.3.
Question 21: Does the exemption in §390.3(f)(3) for the ‘‘occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise’’ apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?
Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: [i](1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant[i]to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject.
Basically what that means is, if you have winnings (winnings are required to be reported to the IRS as an income), you have used that vehicle as a furtherance of a commercial enterprise therefore CDL is required. Just because you are not being paid directly for hauling does not exempt you from commercial status. Take Wal Mart for example. They do not haul anything for hire. They are a private carrier but they use their trucks to haul their products which they sale for profit. That puts them in commercial status.
That also means you cannot haul your trackhoe, dozer, dirt or anything else that belongs to you to any place where it will be used for commerce even tho you are not gettin paid for hauling without a CDL.
Oh contrair!
you missed a very important word that pertains to the "income"... "ordinary"... I bolded it for you so you can find it.
Declaring money won on your taxes is not "ordinary income", and is also not taxed the same. Since there is no garuntee that you will leave with winnings, they do not count as "profit" legally, but "winnings"
If you are transporting the livestock to show and sell... that's a different story, as the selling part is profit.
Your Wal*Mart example does not hold water either, because while the company uses their own vehicles, they hire dedicated drivers, and do not qualify for any Ag. or RV exemptions, nor would they stay within the 150 mile limit for those exemptions. It is not the company that needs the CDL, it is the driver.
As of the personal heavy equipment, travel to/from sites are calculated in the bill, and charged as such. Since it is a cost of operating to transport equipment, if the equipment is used for profit, the transportation is part of "using" the equipment. If you can 100% show that you are just eating the cost of transport, then using the equipment for hire, a CDL would not be required, but not a soul on earth would believe it.
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 567
Likes: 0
From: Albemarle, NC
Three 8k lb torsion axles on it. I've been meaning to take it across the scales, but I imagine that thing weighs every bit of 7-7500 lbs. Heavy, tows nice loaded, but a little rough unloaded.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 495
Likes: 6
From: Snohomish, WA
I didn't have the ER . . 'dangly bits' to make one myself, hauling 17,000 plus load on the trailer requires a sound design and REALLY good welding. I can do the welding but designing something with 2-15k disc brake axles and a power dove tail was beyond my abilities. I tend to over engineer, and instead of a 9000 lb trailer, I'd have probably made a 14,000 lb. one.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,433
Likes: 1
From: Apex, N.C.
Cool. I think my brother in law needs to have his inspected. He bought it from a farmer who apparently had someone make it for him. When my BIL bought it, the farmer just thumbed through a drawer in his office and found some random trailer title, and stamped the corresponding Serial # off title onto the trailer. I guess he'd have to have someone do the same with his trailer to be certain. For reference here's a picture of his when I borrowed it to haul a ton of lumber to Lake Waterree, SC to build a big deck on a house on the lake.
Three 8k lb torsion axles on it. I've been meaning to take it across the scales, but I imagine that thing weighs every bit of 7-7500 lbs. Heavy, tows nice loaded, but a little rough unloaded.
Three 8k lb torsion axles on it. I've been meaning to take it across the scales, but I imagine that thing weighs every bit of 7-7500 lbs. Heavy, tows nice loaded, but a little rough unloaded.
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Elder User
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 567
Likes: 0
From: Albemarle, NC
I don't know what is on the title actually. I'll ask my BIL. Supposedly the farmer he bought it from had someone (a fab shop i suppose) make it, so it may have "xxxxx manufacturing" on it or something.
I've only towed this thing about half a dozen times, I much prefer pulling his featherlite stock trailer. NOW that thing rides like a dream. 24 stock GN trailer is lighter than my 16ft landscape trailer with just two toolboxes, generator, and air compressor.
I've only towed this thing about half a dozen times, I much prefer pulling his featherlite stock trailer. NOW that thing rides like a dream. 24 stock GN trailer is lighter than my 16ft landscape trailer with just two toolboxes, generator, and air compressor.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,433
Likes: 1
From: Apex, N.C.
The reason I asked, If it has a manufacturers name on the title, do not take it to get inspected. I don't know their reaction if you show up with a homemade trailer with a manufacturer on the title or registration. They may impound the trailer until you can prove that it's yours, which may include getting an affidavit from the seller. You could always apply for a homemade trailer title, and I'm not sure but on the newer applications you may be able to declare you own weight on it. The older applications didn't have this.
You can get the application at any authorized N,C. licence plate agency or the DMV. The cost when I got mine was $7.00 plus a notary fee. The application will contain the serial numbers, instructions, and the contact to get it inspected. The last 3 digits of the serial number will be the inspectors initials.
When you take it to get inspected, make sure the tires are in good shape and match the rating of the axles or they will get rated at the tires maximum load. Make sure the ball in the truck and the coupler are sufficient also. Make sure the lights and the brake controller are installed and working properly. Take some x-tra reflective tape with you in case he decides you need to add some. You shouldn't have any problems getting this done.
After getting it inspected, take the completed application back to where you got it and it will be like getting any other title work done. title, taxes, registration, notary, and license fees apply. Mine was about $100.00.
You can get the application at any authorized N,C. licence plate agency or the DMV. The cost when I got mine was $7.00 plus a notary fee. The application will contain the serial numbers, instructions, and the contact to get it inspected. The last 3 digits of the serial number will be the inspectors initials.
When you take it to get inspected, make sure the tires are in good shape and match the rating of the axles or they will get rated at the tires maximum load. Make sure the ball in the truck and the coupler are sufficient also. Make sure the lights and the brake controller are installed and working properly. Take some x-tra reflective tape with you in case he decides you need to add some. You shouldn't have any problems getting this done.
After getting it inspected, take the completed application back to where you got it and it will be like getting any other title work done. title, taxes, registration, notary, and license fees apply. Mine was about $100.00.
Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,537
Likes: 27
From: Long Beach, Ms.
State of Mississippi
You must have a commercial driver license (CDL) to operate any of the following:
Class A - Any Combination of vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, or towing a vehicle with a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more.
Class B - Any Single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more.
Class C - Any Single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 26,001 pounds.
A. Vehicles designed to transport sixteen or more passengers, including the driver
B. Vehicles used in the transportation of hazardous materials which are required to be placarded under the Hazardous Materials Transportation Act.
Class D Commercial License
All other vehicles or combination of vehicles which are not included in Class A, Class B or Class C and for which a Commercial License is required to be issued as provided by Section 63-1-43.
Commercial Drivers License Endorsements:
H - Authorizes the driver to drive a vehicle transporting Hazardous Materials
K - Restricts the driver to vehicles not equipped with air brakes
T - Authorizes driving doubles and triple trailers
P - Authorizes driving vehicles carrying passengers
N - Authorizes driving Tank vehicles
X - Represents a combination of hazardous materials and tank vehicle endorsements
S - Restricts the driver to school buses being operated for the purpose of transporting pupils to and from school or to school related functions.
You must have a commercial driver license (CDL) to operate any of the following:
Class A - Any Combination of vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, or towing a vehicle with a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more.
Class B - Any Single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more.
Class C - Any Single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 26,001 pounds.
A. Vehicles designed to transport sixteen or more passengers, including the driver
B. Vehicles used in the transportation of hazardous materials which are required to be placarded under the Hazardous Materials Transportation Act.
Class D Commercial License
All other vehicles or combination of vehicles which are not included in Class A, Class B or Class C and for which a Commercial License is required to be issued as provided by Section 63-1-43.
Commercial Drivers License Endorsements:
H - Authorizes the driver to drive a vehicle transporting Hazardous Materials
K - Restricts the driver to vehicles not equipped with air brakes
T - Authorizes driving doubles and triple trailers
P - Authorizes driving vehicles carrying passengers
N - Authorizes driving Tank vehicles
X - Represents a combination of hazardous materials and tank vehicle endorsements
S - Restricts the driver to school buses being operated for the purpose of transporting pupils to and from school or to school related functions.
New User
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Ok, this CDL and DOT stuff is way confusing. Would like opinions from you guys on this:
I have F-350 with GVWR of 9900
Horse trailer with GVWR of 9760
I am a horse trainer and sometimes take students to horse shows. I charge them to haul their horses.
Do I need a CDL and commercial insurance to do this legally???
I have F-350 with GVWR of 9900
Horse trailer with GVWR of 9760
I am a horse trainer and sometimes take students to horse shows. I charge them to haul their horses.
Do I need a CDL and commercial insurance to do this legally???
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
Of course your summary of what you thought the law said is not accurate.
Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,591
Likes: 14
From: Pflugerville, tx
a. Vehicles designed to transport sixteen or more passengers, including the driver
or
b. Vehicles used in the transportation of hazardous materials which are required to be placarded under the Hazardous Materials Transportation Act.
Sam