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Intermittent No-Start issue

 
  #1  
Old 08-18-2009, 05:18 PM
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Intermittent No-Start issue

OK guys and gals..... Here's the deal.

I have an 02 Excursion with the 7.3. It's a 2wd and bone stock except for a 6637 filter and it has around 160k miles. I've owned it for right at a year and bought it with 140k miles.

I've been having this problem with the truck where very occasionally it wouldn't start while warm. If it was hot, it was fine. Cold, even better. Only when I would drive less than 15 minutes, run into a store, come back out and try to start it and it wouldn't start. New batteries in January and new Fuel filter in March. Neither cured the problem.

The truck would crank forever, but would not even attempt to fire. Swapped relays, checked fuses, fuel pump is verified running.

This issue was very rare in the beginning but has been getting worse. Recently three things have happened that were out of the ordinary.

First, while hauling about a 5000 pound trailer in 100+ degree ambient temps, the truck started getting hot. Didn't overheat, but got close. I slowed down to about 55 (had been running 65) and it cooled. Since then It has gotten warm while towing even smaller loads. Always in hot weather.

The second thing was a water in fuel light that came on. I shut off the engine and drained the fuel bowl and the light went off and stayed off. This light has never come on before, or since so it could be a true W-I-F event but I don't know.

The third thing happened on my last outing. I noticed twice in the same trip, that when I pulled up to a stop light, I could smell diesel. That had never happened before BUT I am quite "nose deaf". I don't smell very well.

Uh, I mean I can't smell things. Not that I stink...


So last thursday I went to a gig (I'm a soundguy and I use my Ex to pull the PA to shows) and after driving 75 miles to the show, I parked it, unloaded the trailer and then tried to start it. No go. I waited, since it seems that temperature has been a player in this issue. 3 hours later, still no start. In fact I ran the batteries dry trying to start it. Sprayed some (diesel safe) starter fluid and it will run on that until it runs out, but still won't start. I had to leave the truck there for the next few days. When I came back on Sunday, I let the pump prime the fuel bowl, and cranked. Nothing. Did it again, and it sputtered and then caught. It ran fine all the way home. When it's running it seems just fine. No coughing or missing or anything that I notice.

So I start digging into it today, and I found that when the key is on and the fuel pump is running, it won't shut off within 20 seconds like it should, and there is fuel running out of the fuel bowl drain tube when the drain is closed. So it looks like I need to rebuild at least the fuel drain, but I think I'm going to rebuild the whole bowl just to be safe.

So, my question is this. If the fuel drain has been leaking could that explain the warm no-start condition (air in system?) AND the running hot when it shouldn't be (like when a gas engine runs lean?)? It's a given that the fuel smell came from this.

I've also noticed a slight hit in fuel economy, but really not enough to indicate a problem. Around 1 mpg on the trip computer.

Thanks in advance! I'm finding out that I really don't know anything about diesels! Although I'm pretty handy with gas engines, these chattering beasts are a whole new ballgame for me....

-=Tim=-
 
  #2  
Old 08-18-2009, 05:46 PM
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Once you get the fuel leak handled , you may want to check the fuel pressure if you still have a problem ....
 
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Old 08-18-2009, 05:50 PM
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Good description. I would replace the o rings on the drain valve: http://www.dieselorings.com/index.ph...&cat=7&group=6

You could have an intermittent cps. Do you have any way to get the codes read? It's kind of a guessing game without reading the codes. Intermittent issues with these are often an electrical problem which can be hard to find. I'm sure others will give you more feedback.
 
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Old 08-18-2009, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by HiSPL View Post
So, my question is this. If the fuel drain has been leaking could that explain the warm no-start condition (air in system?) AND the running hot when it shouldn't be (like when a gas engine runs lean?)? It's a given that the fuel smell came from this.
I doubt if the fuel leak has anything to do with your overheating or no start issue. I would definitely have something to do with the diesel odor since it would lay on the top of the engine or coating the underside of your truck.

The 7.3s have a very efficient cooling system, so much that a overheating condition usually only occurs with a bad head gasket or something as simple as a stuck thermostat.

To properly diagnose the no start since the engine is turning, you really have to have a scantool to monitor live data as you are trying to start. Low voltage (weak batteries), failing ICP, stuck IPR.... so many possibilities it is hard to make a guess but the fact that your fuel pump does not turn off under KO only is a concern. The fuel pump run time is controlled by the PCM which would make me suspect of a possible problem there.
 
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Old 08-18-2009, 06:17 PM
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I was just talking the other week with Bob at Dieselsite about IPR's.... seems that when the o-rings on the IPR start to go south, the truck gets hard to start. Part of the "rebuild" process can be:

Take the IPR out of the back of the HPOP
Remove o-rings
Spray liberally with brake cleaner
Use a small screwdriver to move the plunger portion of the IPR to clean it
Replace o-rings
Reinstall IPR in to the HPOP

You can get the IPR rebuild kit that contains the O-rings from your local International dealer for $20-ish. Part # is 1825806C92.

From personal experience, I'd buy any other o-rings from Bob (guzzle). It don't get no better!!! DIESELORINGS.COM
 
  #6  
Old 08-18-2009, 06:43 PM
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I plan on buying Guzzle's rebuild kit tonight.

Is there a list of folks with scan tools willing to help a brother out? I'm in College Station, Texas but I drive all over TX. I have a reasonably clear window for the next two weeks to get this done, with the caveat that once I get there, it might not start again!

Or should I just pony up and go to a dealer?

Oh, and as an aside, will the scan tool tell me the door unlock code?

Thanks....
 
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Old 08-18-2009, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by HiSPL View Post
Oh, and as an aside, will the scan tool tell me the door unlock code?
No, but with the 02, the VSM located under the radio, mounted on the firewall with 3 electrical connectors has a code on it. If you give that code to the dealer they will be able to lookup your unlock code.
 
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Old 08-18-2009, 07:30 PM
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Just bought the big O-ring kit so I can be prepared for more leaks in the future. Thanks Guz....

What is the name of the scan tool that is needed for this truck? I want to see how much they are....
 
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Old 08-18-2009, 07:50 PM
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You should check out the glow plugs for continuity. When a "spray" is used to start the motor, it hits the white hot glow plug and can cause it to explode inside of the head.
 
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Old 08-18-2009, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by HiSPL View Post
Just bought the big O-ring kit so I can be prepared for more leaks in the future. Thanks Guz....

What is the name of the scan tool that is needed for this truck? I want to see how much they are....


Many of the FTE'ers use AutoEnginuity. It is used in conjunction with a laptop PC but you need to get the Ford enhanced package to read all the DTC's and sensors on the powerstroke.
 
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Old 08-18-2009, 07:57 PM
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Here's the scan tool most of us use http://www.itpdiesel.com/store.php/p.../Autoenginuity

I'm 15 miles North of Hillsboro if you've got plans to be up this way.
 
  #12  
Old 08-19-2009, 03:47 PM
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OK, so here's an update.

I took it to Autozone for the free code scan. No codes in memory. However, this was a generic code reader. Would it be likely that I would detect something on a ford-specific code reader?

It would cost 100 bucks at the stealership, but it would probably be worth it if I don't find someone locally that has a scan tool.

Also, should I scan for codes WHILE cranking the engine? Or will it set a code to be read at any time?

THX
-=Tim=-
 
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Old 08-19-2009, 03:51 PM
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Also, while talking to the ford tech on the phone, he said to look at the HPOP. It sounds like it's loosing fuel pressure once it's warm.

He also said, that that's a big guess because they don't see many 7.3's at all in the shop. All they work on is 6.0's!
 
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Old 08-19-2009, 03:56 PM
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The generic code reader at AutoZoo won't read PSD codes. HPOP is an oil pump and won't have any effect on fuel pressure (well, that is until the fuel is being squirted into the cylinder).
 
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Old 08-19-2009, 04:52 PM
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OK, so that shows how much I know about diesel tech....


I thought the HPOP pressurized oil that then was pumped into the injectors which in turn used the HP oil to squirt fuel into a cylinder.

Is that not right?
 

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