I was thinkin, I guess the main reason I shy away from the hybrids and such is cause they are *** ugly. Look at the chevy volt, they have it advertised at 230 mpg. But don't plan on seeing me in one of those. Why do they have to put the drivetrain in such an ugly platform? Hell I would drive a 230 mpg drivetrain all day if it was in an actual car and not something that was farted out by Martians. Anyone else feel the same way?

 

230mpg is a lie. GM heavily lobbied the EPA to come up with a phony test cycle. There is no way you can put one gallon in the thing and go 230 miles. It will maybe go 40 miles with no gas, after being plugged in overnight, then something like 40 mpg after that.

Is the Ford Fusion or Escape ugly? What about the Tahoe, Civic? Not all hybrids look like spaceships. There is a market for those that want to show off how "green" they are and also those that just want it to look different just to prove that it is hi-tech.

IF someone comes up with a diesel-electric AWD hybrid that works like a locomotive, I might buy it, assuming its not too ugly or expensive. I may be waiting a while.

Jim

 

I'm under the impression that the gasoline engine in the volt charges the batteries only....right? If so I can see it getting good mileage just on that alone....but I doubt 230 mpg.
I saw a video on the news that showed one struggling to get up a hill. Who wants that?

Plus 40,000 bucks for the thing? Wonder what it will cost to charge the vehicle overnight?

They can keep it!

 

The engine cant just charge the batteries or you would stop and wait for them to charge after driving 40 miles or less, but, as a series hybrid, The engine does not drive the wheels through a transmisssion, like all the other parallel hybrids. The engine drives a generator to power the motor(s) and/or charge the batteries. The whole idea looks good on paper, but trust GM to do it right the first time?

The cost for plug-in recharge are probably still much cheaper than buying gasoline, unless maybe at Hawaiian Electric's rates.

Jim

 

Well hell, I was talking to an old timer (he has passed away) and he said that his family owned a vehicle that him and his dad could get from Burchard to Dubois, which is approx. 25-30 miles on one charge. And that was around 1920! And they can't get any better than 40 miles now! Look at the improvements we have made in technology since then.

 

I hate hybrids. HATE them. This going green thing is also becoming a joke. While everyone goes out and wastes money to gain a few extra miles per gallon ill stick with my truck. In the long run it means less demand for oil and more fuel for me. (cheaper)

 

The cost premium of hybrids over gasoline/diesel makes it hard to justify the cost in the short run except for "Look how Green I am". A decent gas econo car makes way better sense for the vast majority of commuters if bang for buck is what you are looking for.

Electrics have come some way since the 20s but we are stuck with heavy batteries with marginally better capacity than almost 100 years ago. That has always been the gotcha for me, and much of the rest of the world. The batteries add a lot of cost to the car, plus a lot of weight. But the killer for me is that my daily commute has been about 40-60 miles round trip since the 70s, sometimes MUCH more. So current battery capacity is just barely able to make my commute, IF I don't use any electricity for anything else like Air Conditioning, Heating, Head lights, wipers etc. Once you start adding loads, the batteries rapidly deplete. So this is where hybrids from a practical stanpoint kind of make sense. I won't have to worry about conking out and whipping out my really long extention cord during my commute, as long as I have some gas in the tank.

Maybe I should become PC and move into one of the ratholes bieng promoted as eco freindly communities of condos right near the rail tracks.

The rating used by GM is more marketing than anything else, but it is fair game since the EPA hasn't yet settled on a formula on how to compute mileage. How do you compute mileage if your commute is 40 miles rt so you never get off the batteries. MPG is infinity at less than 40 miles rt. However, if you are bucking a headwind thru the rockies doing a cross country trip, your gas mileage will surely vary and be nowhere near 230. So how do you compute? Right now the manufacturers are fudging it with an eye to marketing appeal. The EPA is fudging it because no doubt they have a committee working on the issue.

The Volt almost makes it for me as far as practicality, but I am cheap and will not pay way above average car price so I can have a "Green" sticker on my forehead. So for now if I need to consider another car for commuting, you won't see me pushing past $30K and probably much less except for ego reasons. You can buy a lot of gas for the price premium of the Volt or many other hybrids.

I think the Volt makes a little more sense than the current crop of hybrids since it will get you better mileage than almost any other car type for short commuter trips. The cost is the killer. Hopefully with volume production and better batteries, this will be more reasonable in the future.

A lot of the current hybrids are being converterd by private companies to be plugins to keep off the gas as long as possible. Even Toyota is touting future availability of this feature for their next gen Prius.

I like the idea, it's just too early to be cost effective.

Just my opinion,

Jim Henderson

 

Its hard enough to have a diesel in the cold states and be able to plug that in at work to keep it warm for startup.. and thats just a constant to keep it warm. How much electricity does a hybrid use to charge? How does hooking up to a 'nuclear power plant' actually defeat the purpose of driving a gasoline vehicle??

 

I read something the other day that said the electricty to fully charge the Volt is something like $0.40 assuming 5 cent per kwh, not likely. Average kwh cost is more like 10 cents, but either way we are talking less than a dollar for 40 miles, not bad but it will take a long time to save up the pennies to pay for the batteries and the green sticker on your forehead.

The green rationale for electrics is that an electric utility makes and transmits electricity far more efficiently and with less pollution than filling your tank. Nukes are now the Green way to go, they pollute less and contribute less to global warming than a coal plant.

Jim Henderson

 

Hmm, I guess theres a little more to it than I thought. Though, I still dont believe in it. IMO.

 

I don't think the Volt looks that bad. In comparison to the Prius the Volt looks amazing.

I couldn't imagine paying that much money for it. Plus what exactly is the point of the Volt anyway.

GM will be unable to make money off of it. $40,000 per vehicle is great but they have spent over 750 million dollars to develop it.

So if the 40k was all profit then they would make it back after about 18k vehicles sold. But the battery pack alone cost around 10k then after you include all of the other costs associated with producing this vehicle it will end up being years before they see any profit from it.

 

Well....not taking up for GM mind you.....but they have been building EMD locomotives for years with a diesel engine driving a generator which in turn powers the traction motors on the loco axles. Is the Volt this same design?

 

Same basic concept for the engine and motors, which is why I like it over other hybrids, but completely different design with storage batteries. When a locomotive goes into dynamic braking, heating elements on the roof are used to burn off the excess energy. In a hybrid, it helps to recharge the batteries.

EMD was part of GM back when they were at their best. EMD, Allison, Detroit Diesel and Frigidaire were all sold off long ago.

Jim

 

Well, it has been a while since I have had to come on here and try to set people straight on hybrids and to be honest, it has gotten pretty old listening to people who don't know much about them talking about how they don't work, they don't save gas and I really love it when people tell me what MY reason for buying a hybrid was.

So, that said. Believe what you want. I'll keep this short and sweet....

The hybrids in my sig have been owned by my wife and I for close to 4 1/2 years and have over 40,000 miles on them. Neither has had one single hybrid related problem (power door lock motor in one, AC condensor in the other). Both get well over 35 mpg in the warm weather, well over 30 in the winter. Both are fully capable of highway speeds and then some. Both look identical to a regular Escape. Both have warranties on the batteries and other hybrid components until 10 years and 150,000 miles. Neither has to be plugged in.

I wouldn't trade either one of them for any other small SUV on the road today.

My current tank of gas has taken me over 420 miles and the computer is telling me that I can go 120 more. That will be just over 40 mpg commuting to work and back.

I have saved over $4000 in gas in each one by my numbers....and my numbers may be conservative.

Believe it, don't believe it. It doesn't matter to me. But I can prove everything I have said here.....

 

I have been interested in hybrids and someday I might buy a escape hybrid. I would like to have the option to plug them in as well.