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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 08:24 AM
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A/C giving trouble

I just had my condensor, orphus tube and swith in the dash that moves the dampers replaced and the sytstem vacumed and freon replaced at the dealership. I does blow cooler and alittle harder than it did before but nothing like i think it should. I have a 2002 f150 that blows like a storm and i am kind of use to that a/c system...Any ideas on what it might be. It is hot here in NC with a so-so a/c....
 
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 10:05 AM
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Your AIR dryer is old, it has to be plugged... Considering the climate your in. You use your AIR more then say someone in Northern Mich or Minnisota.

When you buy a new Air dryer, hold it in your hand and notice the weight of it... The old one will be heavy. Moisture saturation... I honestly cannot beleve they did all that to your system, and didnt do the Airdryer.

That baffles me. WOW
 
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 10:59 AM
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Nothing suprises me anymore. How hard it that to do?? any ideas...
 
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 11:04 AM
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It is the shiney alluminum can near the right side firewall... You have to completelay discharge the sytem, to do it, and then vacuum and recharge.

You may have an inline filter there also,and maybe an expansion valve... My bet is all the parts should be more then $50.00.

I cant believe they didnt put them on... I would be back, and bitchen hard at them,...

If you do it, be carfull and pay close attension to the O-rings... They come in different colors and different thinckness. Pay close attention to what you take out, and if the new ones dont match, use the old oned as long as there not torn.
 
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 12:42 PM
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You mention blowing "hard", I'll assume you mean the velocity of the air coming out of the ducts. Or do you actually mean "cold", as in temperature?

If the system blows normally EXCEPT for MAX A/C, you may have a plastic shopping baggie sucked up into the air return duct under the glove box.

From the passenger-side floor, look up under the air box and see.

It's quite common for a random baggie to get sucked up in there, and removing it will restore the vent's "power" while in MAX A/C.

If the vent blows the same in any control position, a baggie isn't the problem.

Pop
 
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Mustang6147
Your AIR dryer is old, it has to be plugged... Considering the climate your in. You use your AIR more then say someone in Northern Mich or Minnisota.

When you buy a new Air dryer, hold it in your hand and notice the weight of it... The old one will be heavy. Moisture saturation... I honestly cannot beleve they did all that to your system, and didnt do the Airdryer.
The Ford A/C system doesn't use an expansion valve, but has a fixed orifice. It also doesn't have a "dryer" or "filter".

If you are referring to the large aluminum can as the air dryer, it's actually called the accumulator. If the accumulator gets cold, has condensate on it (or even frost), the refrigerant is circulating normally, and this isn't plugged.

It's pretty rare an accumulator goes south.

Incidentally, if it IS frosting up, your refrigerant charge may be a little on the high side, but don't panic, as a lot of them do this.

There is no reason the accumulator would "get heavier" over time, as this is a closed system. The shop procedure is to pull a high-vacuum on the system prior to re-charging it, and this will pull (boil) any remaining moisture out that may have been introduced during the service work.

Pop
 
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by SpringerPop
The Ford A/C system doesn't use an expansion valve, but has a fixed orifice. It also doesn't have a "dryer" or "filter".

If you are referring to the large aluminum can as the air dryer, it's actually called the accumulator. If the accumulator gets cold, has condensate on it (or even frost), the refrigerant is circulating normally, and this isn't plugged.

It's pretty rare an accumulator goes south.

Incidentally, if it IS frosting up, your refrigerant charge may be a little on the high side, but don't panic, as a lot of them do this.

There is no reason the accumulator would "get heavier" over time, as this is a closed system. The shop procedure is to pull a high-vacuum on the system prior to re-charging it, and this will pull (boil) any remaining moisture out that may have been introduced during the service work.

Pop
Not true... The Air dryer is and do go bad. Life expextancy depends on climate or location, and use. The normal life is 5 years or less in average climate. Many go longer... alot longer. But there is a price. The A/C unit will slowly loose its cooling efficiency. Very slow, you dont realize it is happening until it goes out... The people go to the store, and get the cans, charge it up and off they go. Soemtimes they overcharge it...(belts squeel)

I really am not sure of the expansion valve, but everyone I have redone, I replaced it. However not all have inline filters... so it stands to reason that they may not have an expansion valve. However. They do all have Air-dryers, condensors, and a compressor.

I mantain. Why didnt they do your Air Dryer... considering your climate??That baffles me.

The best way to know your Airdryer isnt bad, is to compare the weight of it with a new one... It is full of silica... just like the little bag when you get an electronic device. As the silica material collect moisture, it gets heavy of course, but also plugs up, or becomes less efficient. Thats why weight is the best way to tell if it is bad.

I assume one could call it an accumulator based on, it accumulates moisture??? Up here they say want a pop... DOwn south called soda.
Tomato/tomoto Pottato/pototo... You get what I am saying
 
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 02:14 PM
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OK I looked at the parts list/schematic, and prices, of your system... I am not an A/C guy, but can repaire them...

You have an Airdryer/Acumulator. Same thing. about $79.00 has a hose attached to it. Life expectancy is roughly 3 years, in your climate.

You have an expansion valve Rarely go bad $279.00

You have an inline filter, Ussually $10 or so. Should be done on rexcharge.

When they replaced your condensor, they should have replaced your Airdryer... Reason: The refrigerent used today is corrosive in nature, and that is what most likely ate a hole in your condensor. By not replaceing the Air dryer, they comtaminated the new condesor, since it is a closed system.

I would argue that with them, "which they cant argue back"... Get them to do the condensor/filter, for cost of parts... and have them revac your system, and lube and charge it.

Keep in mind an A/C unit only cools by percentage also. And it helps when, alot of air moves past your condensor in front of the radiator.

I hope this helps...Good Luck
 
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 08:32 PM
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Mustang,

Where did you find the parts and prices?

I'd like to have a look at that.

Thanks,

Pop
 
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 09:24 PM
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It is a computer program... Most repaire shops have them.

When a car comes in, and they need a parts brake down, or it will illistrate removal of an item also, say an a repair maybe they never did before, or give updates...

I dont own it, but have access to it threw a local shop. (friends)

Prices are from either Advance Auto Parts, or NAPA or other... which ever one is linked at the time.

I thought it seemed strange , but then figures we were talking about the same thing, and we were.
 
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 09:44 PM
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Sorry Mustang, I'm with SpringerPop on this one.

I'm both a Ford and State certified A/C tech and have worked on many hundreds of Super Duties, and they use a fixed-orifice system and thus have an accumulator, not a receiver-drier which is used on expansion-valve systems. Accumulators are used on the low pressure side of fixed orifice systems and receiver-driers are used on TXV systems. Although it is true that the accumulator does have dessicant in it, it is only there to catch what very little moisture isn't removed during the evacuation and recharge process. That is to say, the A/C system doesn't "make" moisture. Once it is absorbed by the dessicant, the dessicant's job is over until the system is opened again for service in the future. I have seen accumulators fail and release dessicant into the system before, but that would be obvious in this case as the dessicant will destroy the compressor in a matter of a few minutes.

I am not aware of any Ford vehicle manufactured in the last 20 or so years that has used an expansion valve in the primary system, although they are used in auxiliary A/C sytems on vans, ambulances, etc. There are hybrid systems that have been developed recently that use both a fixed-orifice and a TXV, but I have not worked on one as of yet.

In my opinion, based only on the information given by the OP, his system is either over/under charged, or there is dust/debris clogging the evaporator. If he has very high mileage, the compressor might be losing efficiency as well.

Not trying to be argumentive, just don't want the OP to go start yelling at people with his pants down.

OP: How much R-134 did they charge the system with? It should say on your invoice.


Jay
 
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 10:21 PM
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Mustang,

As I said before in Post #6 above, this system does not use an expansion valve, no matter what they cost or what your friend's computer program says. Ford used an orifice in the 2002 F-150 systems, and they cost about $5, certainly not $279. For that money you can buy a compressor!

The accumulator has a desiccant material in it, so you could call it a "drier". but it wouldn't be an "air drier". Maybe it could be called a "refrigerant drier", or a "Freon drier", as it will absorb and hold an amount of moisture, but there should never be any additional moisture introduced into the "CLOSED" system to continue to absorb.

That means there's no "life expectancy", especially based on local climatic conditions, unless the "computer system" is designed to sell parts to unknowing customers. "See, it says right here, three years." Only that moisture remaining after pulling a hard vacuum for an hour will be in the system.

That said, it's not a bad idea to replace the accumulator if the system sat open for a long time, but the original poster didn't allude to that. Or, if the technician doesn't have a vacuum pump capable of pulling a "hard vacuum". Of course, if that's the case, they shouldn't be working on refrigeration systems at all!

The system does not have any additional filtration beyond the accumulator, at least none that I've ever found. It's not a bad idea to install one if the system is already open and you've got a convenient location, but I'm reasonably certain the truck didn't come that way from the factory.

You're a little high on the pricing for the accumulator, but it's in the ballpark. I've seen them as low as about $65 recently.

Don't take my word for any of this, as I don't do this for a living, but you might want to ask a professional A/C shop about what I've written.

Pop

On edit: FireMe, you beat me to it. I spent a while composing what I just wrote, and when I posted it, BAM!, there you were!

I sure agree with what you've written, too. BTW, we just had a thread on how overcharging can render the same poor performance as undercharging.

We welcome your knowledge in your area of expertise.

-M-
 
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 10:24 PM
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I stand alone I guess.
 
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 10:33 PM
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Ford A/C Compressors and Related replacement Items

Some big distributors may spread themselves too thin to provide every part for a particular Ford or import-repair job. Air conditioning fixes may require a condenser, accumulator or drier as well as little things like belts or o-rings. A specialty supplier will list everything available for an A/C system by vehicle model year, so each piece can be budgeted for and received in the same order. These may include:
  • New Ford factory replacement parts
Notice in this article from the MFG Air dryer/ Accumulater. Same thing.

Also on previous post for some reason it show the Ford Ranger part, I am told this is for illistration purposes. Go figure.
 
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 10:36 PM
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are you guys talking about the right vehicle??? He said his 150 blows fine... I assumed it was his 04 F250??? Now I am confused.. It should still have one though..

here is a link to a glossery of FORD terms. Scroll down to AirDryer.

http://www.fordvehicles.com/help/glossary/?letter=1
 
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