Mountains of Va.? I live in the mountains of east Tennessee and I assume these are one of the same. We have not had a arctic temp here in my lifetime. My driving conditions are probably very similar to yours and I have never seen one advantage of using synth in real life.

I actually talked some months back about moutain regions being harder on cars than the typical "Texas heat" that is so often mentioned. In the summer you talked about the heat and oil. Once your engine is warmed up it operates at the same temp regardless of the outside temps. At least in the mountain climate of E. Tennessee it does. We see occasional single digit and triple digit weather and no car I have ever owned that worked properly ran hot anytime of year. How would outside temps affect this anyway? Most engines operate around the 180-200 degree marks which is always hotter than the air outside.

I once again repeat SYNTH has no advantage over dino. NONE!

 

I posted this message in another board, but it bears repeating here. I know that people are very loyal to their brand/type of oil, and I do not mean to disparage any product. If you are happy with what you are using, that's fine with me. Just trying to add to the discussion.

Here goes.

In 1996, Consumer Reports did an exhaustive test on brand name dino and synthetic oil. 22 different oils were tested. All were SH and either 5w-30 and 10w-30. They put identically rebuilt engines in a fleet of 75 NYC taxis. The measured the dimensions and weight of connecting rod bearings, camshafts and lifters that went into each engine. They then ran each engine for 60,000 miles, changing the oil at 6000 mile intervals (the manufacturer recommended 3000 mile intervals). A total of 4-1/2 million miles over 22 months. Each oil was put in 3 different engines. They also ran a series of engines where they changed the oil at 3000 mile intervals. The oil all came from coded drums. The mechanics did not know what oil was going into what engine. CR tested oil samples from each oil change. At the end of test, they disassemled each engine and measured and weighed the sames parts to check for wear. They also examined each engine for combustion chamber build-up, color of the valves, scoring, valve deck deposits, sludge and varnish build-up.

The result? No quantifiable differences between any of the oils, dino or synthetic. No differences between the engines with 3000 mile oil changes and 6000 mile oil changes. They also ran a set of cars with STP and Slick 50. No differences in them either.

CR reported that the taxis were run 24/7 and rarely allowed to cool down. This is cited by many as a flaw in the study. CR acknowleges this limitation and states that cold starting will lead to more sludge build-up, but in its test, the sludge build-up was so minimal that it seemed unlikely that any of the oil would allow significant sludge even in repeated cold start-up conditions.

CR's recommendation? Use an oil with the API "star-burst" symbol and change the oil according to manufacturers recommendation. That's it.

I expect many additional post trying to discredit this study. Like I said (and CR acknowledges), this study does have some limitations, but it is the only exhaustive, real-world, completely INDEPENDENT study that I have ever seen.

If you like Shell, Mobile 1, Castrol, whatever, you should use it, but you are probably paying extra without getting anything in return. In addition, the 3000 mile oil change interval is a myth. Modern oils are easily good for the 5000 or 7500 mile oil change intervals recommended by the manufacturers.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 25-Dec-02 AT 07:00 PM (EST)]>Mountains of Va.? I live in the mountains of east Tennessee
>and I assume these are one of the same. We have not had a
>arctic temp here in my lifetime. My driving conditions are
>probably very similar to yours and I have never seen one
>advantage of using synth in real life.


>I once again repeat SYNTH has no advantage over dino. NONE!


Mountain Lake Biological Station - UVA, Charlottesville, VA.

January 21, 1985 - MINUS (-) 30 degrees (Fahrenheit)
***Does not include any "wind-chill"***

I'm approx. 90 miles WEST, `bout an hour-and-a-half (towards WV. - UP, into the mountains), from Charlottesville - about 60 miles east of Elkins, WV.

Elevation - 3,500 to 4,000 feet.

I'll send you the "LOCAL" (Highland County) winter low temps when I get a chance to dig `em up ... if you'd like (?).

I'd say 30 below -0- (F) qualifies as "ARCTIC" air - if my Ranger was a Diesel, I'd let it run all day - otherwise it's alot of wasted gasoline ($$$) on a small (?) 849 acre farm.

I'll try to dig-up some "averages" and "record-low's" from my town (county) - just for you Stab-ster . . . :-X12

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 25-Dec-02 AT 07:18 PM (EST)] In addition, the 3000 mile oil change
>interval is a myth. Modern oils are easily good for the
>5000 or 7500 mile oil change intervals recommended by the
>manufacturers.


jschira, with all due respect, to you and "CR" - I agree . . . under "NORMAL" operating conditions/service/duty.

I'd say, w/liberalness, 50% of folks do NOT operate under "normal" conditions - I KNOW I don't.

I "average" about 3,750 (roughly) ... (ok, honestly probably more like 4-4500) miles on oil-change intervals, under "Special" (as my FoMoCo O's manual puts it) operating conditions, on a mountain farm.

In the winter, my gas-powered vehicle IS better protected w/ a Synthetic, due to repeated (five, six, somedays 10-12) "COLD" start's (5-15 minute "warm-up's" followed by 1-3 hour's of "cool-down" - "avg." temp., oh probably 20 degrees (F) - a.k.a. Cold-Start). I, unfortunately for me, and against my will, accumulate condensation - a.k.a. h2o - a.k.a. "muck".

The NYC taxi-cabs are an "apples vs. oranges" comparison.

I'll "Speak-to-HEAT" at another time . . .

Regards to ALL - Glenn . . . :-X12

PS - What's the old saying (?) "... grease is cheaper than steel..." (?)

 

Once again, CR acknowleges that its test did not specifically address repeated cold start operations. Once again, CR recommends following the manufacturer's recommended oil change intervals. In repeated cold start operations at below freezing temperatures, every manufacturer that I have seen recommends 3000 mile oil change intervals.

Everyone drives different and in varying conditions. The intent of the test was to try and pick the most demanding conditions for most drivers. Heavy stop and go driving with prolonged idling is the most severe test that most engines will ever encounter.

I repeat. This is the only INDEPENDENT test of motor oil that I have ever seen. The testing was exhaustive and unusually thorough (measuring and weighing engine parts before and after the test, oil analysis at each oil change, double blind study with the oil brand being unknown to the driver and the mechanic).

If you like synthetic and believe that it helps your engine, that's great. Keep on using synthetic. I am not suggesting otherwise. All I am trying to point out is that much of what is written and believed about oil is based on faith, not fact.

 

In addition, the 3000 mile oil change
>interval is a myth. Modern oils are easily good for the
>5000 or 7500 mile oil change intervals recommended by the
>manufacturers.


Sure the "oil's" are "good" for that mileage - but how many miles are the "Engine's" good for at that rate/interval?

Perhaps we are speaking of the difference between "trading-in" every four or five year's and, well, I'd like to keep my truck `til the seats fall through the floor-board from rust.

 

>
>Perhaps we are speaking of the difference between
>"trading-in" every four or five year's and, well, I'd like
>to keep my truck `til the seats fall through the floor-board
>from rust.

Fully synthetic oil applied at 4,000 mile intervals will prevent the floor-boards from rusting through. Dino will work in normal use conditions. But, synthetic is recommended for frequent and repeated seating / unseating action.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist....
(all in fun TL )

Brian A

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 25-Dec-02 AT 10:03 PM (EST)]Hey BrianA! Understood - and thanks for lightening the mood.

It's tough, `cause like you (I think?) and others have said, I'd like to pass this (my) truck on to my son - and everyone responding here is potentially looking at things from an entirely different angle or view-point (point of view?).

While I might be, for better or worse, "poundin' the crap" out of my truck on a regular basis (working mountain-farm) and want to keep this "pup" as much like a "pup", at least until I hand "Lil-T.L." the key(s), the next guy might come along, have 70 degree (avg) starts, twice a day, every day, get it up to operating temp. (long enough to burn off all the "junk" from out of the crankcase, as much as possible), drive on flat, straight, paved roads, not tow or haul much, if anything, and then trade/sell it in four or five years. That guy doesn't need a whole lot of protection . . .

(???!!!) - `Ya know?

I've "grown-up" enough (JUST enough!) to "baby" my truck as much as possible - but there's a time and place for everything - and some-"time(s)" I place more "demand" on my truck than I'd like to, a farm calls, work calls, life calls - they "demand".

Enuff from me already - I know I get too emotional (dramatic)sometimes - I'm a little tired ...

Happy New Year to ALL! - Glenn ...

 

Geez. Use whatever oil you want. It makes no difference to me.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 25-Dec-02 AT 11:13 PM (EST)]I'll edit my comments as they serve no purpose but I just gotta know what exactly do you raise on a farm at that elevation in below zero weather?

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 25-Dec-02 AT 11:39 PM (EST)]Bison (Buffalo), Cattle and Turkey's (housed - not free range).

*EDIT* The Fowl are housed - not the four-legged beasts! haha ...

http://climate.virginia.edu/va_extremes.htm

 

>Geez. Use whatever oil you want. It makes no difference to
>me.

LOL, I read this thread with disengaged amusement. Sometimes it's more fun just to read the threads than to actually interject an opinion.

BTW, those of you who live in colder climates like mine might want to check out the thread on Engine/Block heaters in the Aftermarket Products forum. I would paste a link here but don't know how.

 

"LOL, I read this thread with disengaged amusement. Sometimes it's more fun just to read the threads than to actually interject an opinion."

I know what you mean. If it is possible to start a fist-fight over the internet, the topic of what oil to use will do it.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 26-Dec-02 AT 11:41 AM (EST)]>"LOL, I read this thread with disengaged amusement.
>Sometimes it's more fun just to read the threads than to
>actually interject an opinion."
>
>I know what you mean. If it is possible to start a
>fist-fight over the internet, the topic of what oil to use
>will do it.

I do, by notice of this writ, hereby "dis-engage", formally and officially, from this thread (at least on the "Cold-Start(s)" portion). heehee

Glenn . . .

 

I use Castrol 10W30 synthetic in my 1995 F-150 with 5L engine. I change the oil every 8000-10,000 mi, but change the filter at 4000-5000. No significant oil consumption at 126,000 mi. My preferred filter is the Baldwin B2. I buy them at my local truck supply center. (You will find Baldwin filters in Kenworth, Peterbilt, Cat earthmover, etc.) Motorcraft FL1A is almost as good and a best buy.

I have a 1984 Toyota van which has never had the valve covers off. I recently changed to Castrol 5W50 synthetic and it has slowed the oil consumption. This van just passed the Maryland dynamometer emissions test with very good numbers; it has 230,000 mi. on it.

I keep all mechanical and electrical systems in excellent repair.