With the truck back together and about 30 miles on the replacement clutch, I am VERY HAPPY!!!

Not only is the gear rattle significantly quieter in neutral with the with the "7 & 1 spring" clutch hub design, this clutch is working great so far and is only getting better as it breaks in! Given my experience with the last clutch, I was a little nervous when I first took the truck out, as it still wanted to chatter engaging at low speeds, especially in reverse. Yet as I put more miles on it, the chattering quickly has started disappearing. I even tried easing off the line in 2nd gear a couple times, and it's feeling better and better! Attempting this with the last clutch would have left the truck lurching off the line, making it look like I was clueless on how to drive a stick. I'm sure the initial chatter I felt on this setup was just everything getting seated properly, not to mention me getting used to a much lighter flywheel.

I'm thinking once this clutch breaks in, it'll be 100% better than the dual mass flywheel setup and a bargain of an upgrade!

I'll give you all another update after my camping trip next weekend, as this will be the first test of the new clutch with the truck loaded down.

Thanks guys!

 

Glad to hear you are happier with it.

 

SMF is one of the main reasons I want to upgrade, but i dont have the 800 dollars to do it.

Gotta burn out my current one hauling at the moment.

 

It's been about two months and 2,000 miles since I installed the second replacement clutch, and unfortunately I'm still not happy with it.

I thought putting some towing miles on the clutch would help the chattering engagement and rollover noise, but unfortunately there has been no change. If anything, it's gotten worse. It's again impossible to launch the truck smoothly in 1st or 2nd, and disengaging the clutch in reverse is a joke; the truck jumps like crazy unless I really slip the clutch or just drop it and take off. This alone renders the truck virtually useless for driving in town, in traffic, or even towing a trailer. Not to mention the gear rollover noise in neutral and at low speeds has actually gotten worse.

Does anyone else running the Valair organic clutch have these chattering issues on engagement?

At one point I thought I had finally broke the clutch in after a really long pull up a steep grade with the truck and trailer fully loaded. This was probably the hardest I have worked the truck since i owned it, and everything was quite warm by the top of the hill. When I pulled into the campground at the top of the grade, the rollover noise in neutral was COMPLETELY gone and the clutch was as smooth as can be; I was even able to back the trailer up without using 4-LOW! Unfortunately the chattering and gear rollover had returned by the next morning, once everything had a chance to cool off.

Everyone that rides in the truck asks what's wrong with the transmission and clutch, and I won't even risk letting anyone else drive the thing. I'm going to give Dan a call on Tuesday to see what to do next, but I'm really at my wit's end with this project!

I certainly don't want to spend the money to go back to the inferior DMF, but if what I'm currently experiencing is "normal" for a SMF, then I guess it might be time to dump the truck and buy a newer one.

 

Subscribing. I am interested in this.

 

SHOpar, it doesnt really make alot of since why the organic clutch act this way, i probably asked this before, have you checked everything else out like the carrier bearing, u-joints, trans mount and the end of the input shaft to if it had any wear on it. the reasons i ask you this is that it isnt normal for that clutch to do that, and maybe if you can eliminate the clutch for a moment we might find something else wrong.It also does not make any since why it quit when it got warm. i cant really do anything for you today, but check everything out and give me a call tuesday.

 

This may help my truck only has 102k on it and I recently took my turbo out to have Ron rebuild it.
During removal I found one of my trans bolts finger loose by accident when looking for the last bolt on the pedalstal. The factory as far as I know was the last to tighten those so wouldn't hurt to re-check there too.

 

Did you resurface the flywheel for the replacement clutch? Also, is it the same flywheel that Jim said looked like it had a hard spot in it? Also, how does the truck run as a whole? Motor spikes are what cause the gear rollover noise. If it's not running smooth it could cause it as well. I'm just thinking out loud. I realize you are frustrated, and I just want to help. If you were close to me, I'd pull the tranny myself just to look at it. But something has got to be a miss. I've never seen a full organic be grabby like you are talking about, and as you know, I've been through some clutches. Hell, maybe there was a greasy spot left on one of the parts, a pressure plate bolt that didn't get tight........it's got to be something just crazy weird like that. I don't know, like I said, just thinking out loud.

 

Hey RubberDuck, I definitely appreciate the input you and others have given so far - it has certainly helped rule stuff out! If anything, at least this will be a great learning experience for all involved.

Valair sent me a new flywheel with the repacement clutch, so it wasn't the flywheel from my previous clutch job. The truck runs absolutely fantastic - in fact I averaged 20 mpgs a couple tanks ago (mostly highway miles)! I was meticulous about keeping everything clean and properly torquing everything down during the install, so I certainly hope I don't find any grease where there shouldn't be or any loose bolts when I tear it back apart, but who knows, stranger things have happened!

I did talk with Dan and took the truck into a local shop today, so I have an update I'll post in a new reply.

Thanks again everyone for you input!

 

I talked to Dan at Valair this morning, and we both thought it would be a good idea to take the truck into a shop to get a second opinion and to see if I was missing anything obvious, so I ended up taking it into a local shop that has a good reputation and specializes in clutch and brake jobs. In fact, I have my Taurus SHO in their shop right now getting its clutch replaced. I used them the first time the clutch in my SHO went out, which was about 9 years and 85K miles ago, and they were amazed the clutch lasted as long as it did, as they say most SHO owners only get about 50K out of their clutches.

Anyway, they took a look at the truck, drove it around, and felt pretty confident there was something wrong with the clutch. They said they have installed quite a few of the LUK SMF conversion kits and have never had one jump as bad as mine when taking off from a stop, nor be nearly as noisy in neutral with the clutch engaged. In fact, they were thinking something was severely wrong with my transmission and/or input shaft until I told them the neutral gear rollover noise wasn't there until after converting to the SMF.

After taking a look at the first clutch kit I installed and seeing the hot spots on the flywheel, their guess was that it was likely a bad pressure plate on both kits. They also revved it in neutral and noticed a shaking around 2K. They asked if that had always been there, and I said only since installing the first SMF flywheel and clutch kit. I also told them that I noticed that same shaking once in awhile when I get high up into the revs (2,700+) while driving. They thought that the shaking may be due to an out-of-balance clutch or flywheel.

They said if I wanted them to do the job on the next go-around, I could go with a LUK conversion kit installed for $1,250, go with a new DMF and clutch kit for about $2,400 installed (a new DMF is around $1,400 by itself!), or pay them $500 labor if I brought them the parts. I didn't think the labor-only quote was too bad, but if they supply the parts, I also get a limited lifetime warranty on the work. If I supply the parts, there is no labor warranty. There is no way I'm going to shell out $1,400 for an inferior DMF, so I am definitely going to stick with the SMF.

I talked to Dan again this afternoon and told him what the shop had told me. He said will be more than happy to send a another replacement clutch if the current one proves to be defective, but that he wants me to tear everything back apart for a full inspection to make absolutely certain it's not something else causing all my problems. He said the odds of two pressure plates in a row being defective are pretty slim, and he doesn't want to ship me another clutch and have me install it only to have the same problem. I can't blame him, as I know the shipping costs alone are pretty bad and I certainly don't want to do another clutch job only to find out something else was wrong.

I'm really not looking forward to dropping the trans a third time this summer, but that's not even the worst part! The worst part is having the truck down for at least another two weeks while I take it apart AGAIN, inspect everything, and then wait 5+ days for new parts to be shipped!

I just wish I lived closer to Texas so I could have RubberDuck or Dan look at it themselves, as I'm sure if they could actually see it in person, we would have had this thing fixed a long time ago!

 

Man, if you lived even remotely close to TX, your truck would be down for hours, not days. I'd meet you at Valair, and JD and myself would have a new clutch in that truck so fast you'd just laugh. And we'd keep going till it's right. Dan's son and I had my tranny in and out of my truck 8 times in one night.

Anyway, I just wanna say Dan is one hell of a man. And I don't believe anyone would go this far to satisfy a customer. And I promise as long as you don't give up, he WILL see this through. And that alone speaks volumes about Valair. And if all else fails, I've got an organic/feramic setup I ran for 500 miles during our double disk project I'll send you. It was smooth as silk and quiet. And I know there is nothing wrong with it. We won't give up on you man. LOL

 

i have something similar happening in my truck.i put a new transmission, south bend clutch and flywheel.the only difference is that with the instructions there was a sheet explaining that gear rollover could be present.but when buying the clutch on the phone they didnt ask me if i mind having the extra noise down there.knowing that the original design i far worst i would have say its ok.
but yes its there and people always ask whats that noise?
on the driving side the only complain is to make a smooth upshift is like i have to start moving the lever before pressing the clutch otherwise it would do the "not fully pressed clutch" effect .then my friend who helped my with the install show me how to shift without using the clutch and how to "shift right" with the new south bend clutch.
still i shift using the clutch,im too old to learn tricks like that,unless of course i can practice with my mother's car...

 

LOL! I know you guys would probably be more than willing to take a look at my truck if I was closer! Heck, if i was even within 1,000 miles from Texas, I'd take a few days off work to drive down there and even be willing to pay you all for your time to get my truck fixed right! Unfortunately I'm over 2,000 miles away, so driving down there over a long weekend and a few days off is pretty much out of the question.

Again, I am very grateful for all your advice Cody, and I can't thank Dan enough for his patience and willingness to help figure out what's wrong. If I ever to make it through Texas, I definitely owe you and Dan a beer or two for all your help!

I figure I owe it to myself and everyone involved with this thread to pull the trans one more time and go over everything with a fine-tooth comb. Worst case, if nothing really wrong can be found after I tear it back down, I'll chaulk it up to getting older (turning 30 next month!) and succomb to looking for a newer PSD with an auto trans that has been built up so I don't have to deal with any more transmission BS. Mind you, this would be the first auto I have ever owned!!!

 

Hey nikwave, it's certainly good to hear I'm not alone in my SMF conversion troubles! As unfortunate as it is for you, I'm glad to hear someone saying they're not 100% happy with their South Bend Clutch. It leads me to believe that some people just don't have very good luck with SMF kits; no matter what vendor they choose.

I considered myself well informed before ordering a SMF conversion kit, and was fully prepared for "additional gear rollover noise," but the additional noise I've been experiencing is well beyond my personal tolerance level. If I can't hold a conversation with someone in the cab of a basically stock truck at idle, there's a big problem IMHO.

Oddly enough, I'm not having the same shifting troubles as you once I get off the line. Once I'm rolling, the shifts feel excellent. Pedal effort is greatly reduced over the OEM clutch, and I have yet to miss a gear. With the stock DMF, I was constantly crunching gears when shifting up or down if I wasn't paying full attention to what I was doing and if I didn't have the clutch pedal fully on the floor. Shifting with my original DMF was rediculous, as pedal engagement was right off the floor, and I swear anyone that drove it must have been able to leg-press the curb weight of a Ranger!

Good luck in successfully figuring out your South Bend clutch, and here's to us "old" people if the manuals end up being to much of a PITA and we have to switch to autos!

 

Well I talked to a friend of mine that is planning on driving to Boise, ID to pick up a travel trailer the weekend of September 26th, and he is having some issues with his intended tow rig; a 2000 Mercedes ML 55 AMG.

He took it into the dealer today for a noisy powersteering pump, and they said he had leaks in the hoses, reservoir, AND rack! They quoted him $2,800 to fix it all, and he said he just about had a heart attack! I can't say that I blame him, but at least I'm not nearly as stressed out about my clutch woes!

Long story short, he was able to find a much better deal on a rebuilt rack over the Internet, but he doesn't know if it will get here in time to install before the trip, so I have to keep my truck together for the next couple of weeks in case we have to use it to pull the trailer back home.

I will definitely keep you all posted though!