4R100
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Senior User
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 423
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From: Cabot, Arkansas
4R100
While reading my F250s manual I found something interesting which caused me to wonder.
It says the computer connected to my 4R100 Auto transmission learns shift patterns from the type of driving I normally do and will collect this information over several hundred miles of driving. It will dump this collected info if it loses battery power and will reset itself to a startup setting.
Now the questions...
Does it constantly update the shift pattern by looking over the last miles driven or only the first miles? For example, if I have been driving empty in town for 200 miles and then take it on the road for a 500 mile trip towing a heavy trailer, does it update the pattern?
If not, would there be any benefit in disconnecting the battery to reset the computer if I am going to radically change my driving patterns?
Sometimes the owners manual opens the can of worms and lets them all squirm out...
Edmo
It says the computer connected to my 4R100 Auto transmission learns shift patterns from the type of driving I normally do and will collect this information over several hundred miles of driving. It will dump this collected info if it loses battery power and will reset itself to a startup setting.
Now the questions...
Does it constantly update the shift pattern by looking over the last miles driven or only the first miles? For example, if I have been driving empty in town for 200 miles and then take it on the road for a 500 mile trip towing a heavy trailer, does it update the pattern?
If not, would there be any benefit in disconnecting the battery to reset the computer if I am going to radically change my driving patterns?
Sometimes the owners manual opens the can of worms and lets them all squirm out...
Edmo
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,730
Likes: 2,658
From: SE Florida
4R100
Sometimes the owner's manual is just plain wrong. This is one of them.
The computer learns how long it takes a shift to complete from when the shift was commanded to when it finishes. It "learns" the difference from what was programmed as the ideal time, and then adjusts the pressure for the next shift to try and make that one the ideal length.
The computer never changes when the shift will happen, just how long the shift lasts.
It also does not matter if the truck is loaded or empty, or if you drive or your wife drives.
Mark
The computer learns how long it takes a shift to complete from when the shift was commanded to when it finishes. It "learns" the difference from what was programmed as the ideal time, and then adjusts the pressure for the next shift to try and make that one the ideal length.
The computer never changes when the shift will happen, just how long the shift lasts.
It also does not matter if the truck is loaded or empty, or if you drive or your wife drives.
Mark
Sit. Stay.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 18,308
Likes: 20
From: Washington State
4R100
>Sometimes the owner's manual is just plain wrong. This is
>one of them.
>
>The computer learns how long it takes a shift to complete
>from when the shift was commanded to when it finishes. It
>"learns" the difference from what was programmed as the
>ideal time, and then adjusts the pressure for the next shift
>to try and make that one the ideal length.
>
>The computer never changes when the shift will happen, just
>how long the shift lasts.
>
>It also does not matter if the truck is loaded or empty, or
>if you drive or your wife drives.
Hey Mark, that really helped me as I've always wondered what the heck they (Ford) were talking about when they said that we have a tow/haul "switch" yet it was internal within the trans.
So, what you're saying is, that the shift points never change based on throttle position, weight and speed, just the actual time it takes to make the shift from one gear to another?
>one of them.
>
>The computer learns how long it takes a shift to complete
>from when the shift was commanded to when it finishes. It
>"learns" the difference from what was programmed as the
>ideal time, and then adjusts the pressure for the next shift
>to try and make that one the ideal length.
>
>The computer never changes when the shift will happen, just
>how long the shift lasts.
>
>It also does not matter if the truck is loaded or empty, or
>if you drive or your wife drives.
Hey Mark, that really helped me as I've always wondered what the heck they (Ford) were talking about when they said that we have a tow/haul "switch" yet it was internal within the trans.
So, what you're saying is, that the shift points never change based on throttle position, weight and speed, just the actual time it takes to make the shift from one gear to another?
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,730
Likes: 2,658
From: SE Florida
4R100
The vehicle speed at which the transmission shifts is a function of vehicle speed and throttle position. This is hard programmed into the PCM. It does not change with learning. There ar emany modifiers, so in some instances on grades or with loads it can change some, but it isn't learned.
Once a shift is commanded by the PCM, the time it takes for the shift to complete is learned. The commanded pressure for the next shift is adjusted to make the time the clutches/bands are slipping as close to the ideal time as possible.
Mark
Once a shift is commanded by the PCM, the time it takes for the shift to complete is learned. The commanded pressure for the next shift is adjusted to make the time the clutches/bands are slipping as close to the ideal time as possible.
Mark
Sit. Stay.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 18,308
Likes: 20
From: Washington State
4R100
Excellent answer! I now understand better. You wouldn't happen to be transmission specialist, would you? 
Automatic transmissions have always been "magic" to me...I've never quite understood how they actually work. Could you take a minute and explain in the simplified way that you did before, what exactly torque converter lockup is? Thanks.
Automatic transmissions have always been "magic" to me...I've never quite understood how they actually work. Could you take a minute and explain in the simplified way that you did before, what exactly torque converter lockup is? Thanks.
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,730
Likes: 2,658
From: SE Florida
4R100
Inside a lockup torque converter is a clutch. It looks just like a manual transmission clutch.
When it applies it locks the input and output of the torque converter together so that there is no slip, just like a manual trans clutch.
The clutch in a torque converter is applied with hydraulic pressure supplied by the transmission pump. The valve body and computer work to control when the clutch applies and releases.
You can get more detail, and pictures, at www.howstuffworks.com. They have a good section on automatics and torque converters.
And yes, I do know a bit about automatic transmission.
Mark
When it applies it locks the input and output of the torque converter together so that there is no slip, just like a manual trans clutch.
The clutch in a torque converter is applied with hydraulic pressure supplied by the transmission pump. The valve body and computer work to control when the clutch applies and releases.
You can get more detail, and pictures, at www.howstuffworks.com. They have a good section on automatics and torque converters.
And yes, I do know a bit about automatic transmission.
Mark
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 423
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From: Cabot, Arkansas
4R100
Mark,
One more question... You say the info "learned" by the computer is the length of time it takes to complete the shift... Does this length of time change over the life of the tranny (read: wear), or does it stay the same? This relates to my question of whether the computer is constantly learning/updating or if it only learns the patterns in the first part of it's life...
Thanks for the info... Most of us pretend mechanics think the tranny is run on smoke & mirrors...
Edmo
One more question... You say the info "learned" by the computer is the length of time it takes to complete the shift... Does this length of time change over the life of the tranny (read: wear), or does it stay the same? This relates to my question of whether the computer is constantly learning/updating or if it only learns the patterns in the first part of it's life...
Thanks for the info... Most of us pretend mechanics think the tranny is run on smoke & mirrors...
Edmo
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Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,730
Likes: 2,658
From: SE Florida
4R100
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 16-Jan-02 AT 08:34 AM (EST)]The learning takes place over the life of the transmission. It is there mainly to keep the transmission shifting the same as new as it wears.
Mark
PS-They *DO* run on smoke and mirrors!
Mark
PS-They *DO* run on smoke and mirrors!
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Senior User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 256
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4R100
Mark,
Any idea how the Banks TransCommand works and is it as effective as they claim? I'm thinking of adding one next month when I have my Banks Stinger installed.
Nice to have an auto tranny expert onboard, thanks!
-V10gunner
'00 SD F250 Super Cab XLT, 4X2, 142"WB, 6.8L V10, 4R100, 4.30LS, Camper Package, Dark Toreador Red over Silver, Line-X, Husky mud flaps, Snugtop Xtra Vision Cab-high shell
Any idea how the Banks TransCommand works and is it as effective as they claim?
I'm thinking of adding one next month when I have my Banks Stinger installed.Nice to have an auto tranny expert onboard, thanks!
-V10gunner
'00 SD F250 Super Cab XLT, 4X2, 142"WB, 6.8L V10, 4R100, 4.30LS, Camper Package, Dark Toreador Red over Silver, Line-X, Husky mud flaps, Snugtop Xtra Vision Cab-high shell
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,730
Likes: 2,658
From: SE Florida
4R100
>Mark,
>
>Any idea how the Banks TransCommand works and is it as
>effective as they claim?
I do have an idea of how it works, but I don't know if it is effective.
I think all it does is add electrical resistance to the power to the electronic pressure solenoid. With less current the solenoid flows more pressure, until you reach the maximum pressure it can control. I've never seen one of these, but someone who has described it to me.
Mark
>
>Any idea how the Banks TransCommand works and is it as
>effective as they claim?
I do have an idea of how it works, but I don't know if it is effective.
I think all it does is add electrical resistance to the power to the electronic pressure solenoid. With less current the solenoid flows more pressure, until you reach the maximum pressure it can control. I've never seen one of these, but someone who has described it to me.
Mark
