Reshaping the firewall... and frame paint?
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Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,993
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From: Bend, OR
Reshaping the firewall... and frame paint?
Did a little work on the fire wall this weekend. My down pipe was VERY close to the body and had rubbed the insulation a bit over the last few months. So I removed the insulation and cleaned everything up.
I beat the firewall back about 3/4" or so and reshaped it a bit, also shaped a pinch weld seam below.
A few questions...
What can I coat the firewall with that will hold up? I am thinking Bed liner material? Something I can spray on a few light coats to give a bit of heat barrier and some sound insulation.
Second is somewhat unrelated but... What would cause all the paint to come off the frame like that? Seems the factory would use something a bit better on the frame? Something oil and gas solvent???:doh:
I beat the firewall back about 3/4" or so and reshaped it a bit, also shaped a pinch weld seam below.
A few questions...
What can I coat the firewall with that will hold up? I am thinking Bed liner material? Something I can spray on a few light coats to give a bit of heat barrier and some sound insulation.
Second is somewhat unrelated but... What would cause all the paint to come off the frame like that? Seems the factory would use something a bit better on the frame? Something oil and gas solvent???:doh:
Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,286
Likes: 263
From: North of Greenville
I'm not sure what would have taken the paint off, but are you sure it was the paint that really came off, or was it maybe just the tar-like undercoating that came off? Do you use a lot of segreaser to clean your engine bay? If so, perhaps that could have dissolved the undercoating away? I just guessing on thsi one.
On the bedliner, though, I would do some research regarding temperature tolerances for those materials. I;ve linked a therad I found that talks about the Linex product having a temperature tolerance of up to 250°F while others are only rated at about 175°F.
As for thermal insulation, I would look for something similar to the OEM stuff and leave all sound-deadening efforts to inside the cab. That way, you don;t have to worry about the heat from the back of the engine area causing glues/coatings to get soft and start dropping off on top of your tranny or downpipe.
I dunno... maybe I'm overly concerned aout the tmerpature issue.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/3...-bedliner.html
On the bedliner, though, I would do some research regarding temperature tolerances for those materials. I;ve linked a therad I found that talks about the Linex product having a temperature tolerance of up to 250°F while others are only rated at about 175°F.
As for thermal insulation, I would look for something similar to the OEM stuff and leave all sound-deadening efforts to inside the cab. That way, you don;t have to worry about the heat from the back of the engine area causing glues/coatings to get soft and start dropping off on top of your tranny or downpipe.
I dunno... maybe I'm overly concerned aout the tmerpature issue.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/3...-bedliner.html
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Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,993
Likes: 2
From: Bend, OR
Interesting. I am not sure what kind of temps there are back there... I will have to hit the factory stuff with a flame and see where it takes off at. I will most likely pull the seats and carpet out next weekend and put more insulation in the cab...
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,966
Likes: 50
From: Texas
How long till you need to make a decision Joe? I've got a Line-X on my tailgate and a Herculiner in my bed. I use my truck as a truck, so both have seen better days. If I get the time I can do some very unscientific tests to see how they act around a little heat.
I'm thinking a propane torch aimed at a piece of sheet metal about 2" from the liner and watch the temps on the bed liner with an IR temp gun.
I'm thinking a propane torch aimed at a piece of sheet metal about 2" from the liner and watch the temps on the bed liner with an IR temp gun.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 28,296
Likes: 6
From: BLT, MN
That downpipe gets way hotter than 250 deg. The Linex or others will never hold up. I agree with the sound deadening on the inside. I would either leave it with just some high temp paint coating or put the factory style insulation back on. Just my .02
The factory coatings on the frames are notoriously bad. I agree, you would think they would put something more durable on them though.
The factory coatings on the frames are notoriously bad. I agree, you would think they would put something more durable on them though.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,966
Likes: 50
From: Texas
That downpipe gets way hotter than 250 deg. The Linex or others will never hold up. I agree with the sound deadening on the inside. I would either leave it with just some high temp paint coating or put the factory style insulation back on. Just my .02
The factory coatings on the frames are notoriously bad. I agree, you would think they would put something more durable on them though.
The factory coatings on the frames are notoriously bad. I agree, you would think they would put something more durable on them though.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 823
Likes: 5
From: Dallas, Oregon
Have you looked into something that has a reflective surface toward the downpipe? This area is perfect for that. Since you have a clear shot at the firewall, now would be a good time to upgrade. The reflective surface is amazing in it's capacity to keep heat from transferring to the steel surface, especially radiant heat.
As far a temperature goes, if the original paint was not "cooked" you should have a good idea what the replacement needs to handle based on the temperature limits for factory-style paint.
Cascade Audio Engineering is right in your area. You might contact them to see if they have something appropriate. Cascade Audio Engineering – Sound Damping and Sound Blocking – Anything Else is a Compromise
Is the gray on the frame the bare steel? Is it phospate treated or just plain? If it isn't treated, now would be a good time to use a phospate etch to get a better grip for the paint.
As far a temperature goes, if the original paint was not "cooked" you should have a good idea what the replacement needs to handle based on the temperature limits for factory-style paint.
Cascade Audio Engineering is right in your area. You might contact them to see if they have something appropriate. Cascade Audio Engineering – Sound Damping and Sound Blocking – Anything Else is a Compromise
Is the gray on the frame the bare steel? Is it phospate treated or just plain? If it isn't treated, now would be a good time to use a phospate etch to get a better grip for the paint.
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Posting Guru
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,104
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From: West Tx
Lizard skin makes a special ceramic based thermal insulator/sound barrier you could use. Spray on like a bed liner, but won't melt. As for the frame, they are dipped in a parrafin from the factory, not the best idea, however, there are several options; re undercoat it, use heavy duty anti rust which is the same as the original coating, use a 2K ceramic based chassis paint, or leave it....
Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,286
Likes: 263
From: North of Greenville
I'm not saying the up pipes or down pipe doesn't get hotter than that, but that little insulation Ford sticks on the firewall can't reduce the heat that much can it? What effect does the air space have on the temps? Since we don't read much about the foil faced insulation delaminating from the firewall, either Ford has some miracle glue they use to hold the insulation in place, or the temps are lower at the firewall than you (or at least I) would think.
Actually, air space is a great thermal insulator because it is not dense. If you can trap air in a space under a vacuum, making the air even less dense, it becomes an even better insulator (like in the double- and triple-pane windows in your house).
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,966
Likes: 50
From: Texas
The insulation in your attic also works by trapping air in the material to provide the R-Value.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 823
Likes: 5
From: Dallas, Oregon
I don't have charts, formulas, and graphs to back it up, but I know from experience that most heat transfer from exhaust systems is from radiant heat. The second largest source of heat transfer is the pipe heating air which then transfers to the surrounding structures. Of the two, radiant is much more important.
The three most common strategies to deal with radiant heat transfer are:
1) distance.
2) block the source from the object, i.e. a "heat shield".
3) reflective surface on the object. This sends the radiant energy back toward the source.
The three most common strategies to deal with radiant heat transfer are:
1) distance.
2) block the source from the object, i.e. a "heat shield".
3) reflective surface on the object. This sends the radiant energy back toward the source.
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