Help with 429 specs please
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Joined: Jul 2007
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From: I live in Leitchfield, KY
Help with 429 specs please
Hey guys, gals. I got a lead on a 429 and a C6 from a '72 station wagon from a local guy. I know that the '72's didnt have the greatest heads and such, but was wondering if any of the big block ford guys could advise me on this. I can hear it run, (still in the car) and the cat wants $300 for engine/trans. It dont sound like too bad of a deal, but I know that it would have to have to be rebuild (probably?) anyway my main concern is weight and torque specs. I've always wanted a big block in my truck and this might make me take out that "off brand" engine and put in a real one.
Thanks guys!!
Thanks guys!!
Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,591
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From: Pflugerville, tx
Yeh, 72 heads stink, but you should be able to find a set of C8/C9/D0VE heads for not too bad ($200).. (ebay item 160334156303 for example)..
I sold a set of stock C8VEs last summer for $200.
I paid $550 to get my BB C6 rebuilt. and $1350 for the engine.. probably could have squeezed it out for $950 if I had stayed more stock. (assuming can be bored if required)..
I would guess it is not much less than my 460 in weight, 700+275 for tranny.
there is no good overdrive tranny for this beast. a 460->AOD (or GM 700-r4) ADAPTER is around $800 by itself. (E4OD has been an expensive dog tranny).
oh, and http://ford460.com is a great site for info on this engine setup
Sam
I sold a set of stock C8VEs last summer for $200.
I paid $550 to get my BB C6 rebuilt. and $1350 for the engine.. probably could have squeezed it out for $950 if I had stayed more stock. (assuming can be bored if required)..
I would guess it is not much less than my 460 in weight, 700+275 for tranny.
there is no good overdrive tranny for this beast. a 460->AOD (or GM 700-r4) ADAPTER is around $800 by itself. (E4OD has been an expensive dog tranny).
oh, and http://ford460.com is a great site for info on this engine setup
Sam
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 800
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From: Edmonton, Alberta Canada
like Sam said, they are a heavy beast, probably Ford's heaviest pass car engine, so you have to account for that in your front end set up.
stock I beam, springs and brakes are probably not going to cut it with that engine without some major upgrades and such. good brakes are a must as you are going to have a lot of weight over the front wheels with those engines.
the 429/460 has great power potential even with the good factory heads (talking the early heads C8, C9 and Dove heads and even the more plentiful D3Ve heads) with a good port job on the exhaust, and proper selection of components can make an easy 400 - 500hp without breaking a sweat. of course there is also a ton of aftermarket heads available if you want to spend a little more that will put even the cobra jet heads to shame.
$300 is not a bad deal for a running engine/tranny in my books, unforetunetly the D2VE heads that it more than likely has are garbage. even in stock form with 8:1 compression they were very prone to detonation. that would be the first thing to toss away.
good luck
Mike
stock I beam, springs and brakes are probably not going to cut it with that engine without some major upgrades and such. good brakes are a must as you are going to have a lot of weight over the front wheels with those engines.
the 429/460 has great power potential even with the good factory heads (talking the early heads C8, C9 and Dove heads and even the more plentiful D3Ve heads) with a good port job on the exhaust, and proper selection of components can make an easy 400 - 500hp without breaking a sweat. of course there is also a ton of aftermarket heads available if you want to spend a little more that will put even the cobra jet heads to shame.
$300 is not a bad deal for a running engine/tranny in my books, unforetunetly the D2VE heads that it more than likely has are garbage. even in stock form with 8:1 compression they were very prone to detonation. that would be the first thing to toss away.
good luck
Mike
Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,591
Likes: 14
From: Pflugerville, tx
like Sam said, they are a heavy beast, probably Ford's heaviest pass car engine, so you have to account for that in your front end set up.
stock I beam, springs and brakes are probably not going to cut it with that engine without some major upgrades and such. good brakes are a must as you are going to have a lot of weight over the front wheels with those engines.
the 429/460 has great power potential even with the good factory heads (talking the early heads C8, C9 and Dove heads and even the more plentiful D3Ve heads) with a good port job on the exhaust, and proper selection of components can make an easy 400 - 500hp without breaking a sweat. of course there is also a ton of aftermarket heads available if you want to spend a little more that will put even the cobra jet heads to shame.
$300 is not a bad deal for a running engine/tranny in my books, unforetunetly the D2VE heads that it more than likely has are garbage. even in stock form with 8:1 compression they were very prone to detonation. that would be the first thing to toss away.
good luck
Mike
stock I beam, springs and brakes are probably not going to cut it with that engine without some major upgrades and such. good brakes are a must as you are going to have a lot of weight over the front wheels with those engines.
the 429/460 has great power potential even with the good factory heads (talking the early heads C8, C9 and Dove heads and even the more plentiful D3Ve heads) with a good port job on the exhaust, and proper selection of components can make an easy 400 - 500hp without breaking a sweat. of course there is also a ton of aftermarket heads available if you want to spend a little more that will put even the cobra jet heads to shame.
$300 is not a bad deal for a running engine/tranny in my books, unforetunetly the D2VE heads that it more than likely has are garbage. even in stock form with 8:1 compression they were very prone to detonation. that would be the first thing to toss away.
good luck
Mike
Sam
Post Fiend
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,641
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From: Poway, Ca.
According to the Engine Weights Table provided at:
http://fixrambler.com/engineweightchart.txt
Your 460 and 429 come in at the same fatboy weight of 720 lbs. The BOSS 429 with aluminum heads you can get down to 635 # less than an FE.
http://fixrambler.com/engineweightchart.txt
Your 460 and 429 come in at the same fatboy weight of 720 lbs. The BOSS 429 with aluminum heads you can get down to 635 # less than an FE.
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 790
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From: Highland Village, TX
Hi Terry,
According to the Ford Parts Interchange book I have a 72 429 was 208 hp @ 4400 rpm and 322lbs torque @ 2600 rpm. Same bore 4.36 inches with a shorter stroke of 3.59 inches than the 460. In fact all parts are interchangeable, drop a 460 crank in a 429 block and you have a 460. The CJ and SCJ blocks are 4 bolt mains along with the D7TE and D8TE truck blocks.
Good luck
Scott
According to the Ford Parts Interchange book I have a 72 429 was 208 hp @ 4400 rpm and 322lbs torque @ 2600 rpm. Same bore 4.36 inches with a shorter stroke of 3.59 inches than the 460. In fact all parts are interchangeable, drop a 460 crank in a 429 block and you have a 460. The CJ and SCJ blocks are 4 bolt mains along with the D7TE and D8TE truck blocks.
Good luck
Scott
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From: I live in Leitchfield, KY
Ok, guys... It is a '71 model car in the 3rd month of '71 also, it is a 2barrel carb so the heads are most likely JUNK as far as power goes. The carb is locked up and wont move. I havent looked at it yet, little bro went and looked at it for me. He works for the guy and the guy said it did run, but we havent heard it at this time. I'm undecided as of yet. Thanks for the input guys, keep it coming.
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Elder User
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 800
Likes: 6
From: Edmonton, Alberta Canada
you also have to change the pistons if dropping in a 460 crank. the pistons and crank are the two different components between the 429 and 460. the pin locations are different between the two due to stoke difference.
also not all CJ engines were 4 bolt mains. all SCJ engines were, but not all CJ engines were 4 bolt mains. i think it was only 71 cj's that got the 4 bolt mains for sure. 70 CJ might or night not have 4 bolt mains depending on when they were produced.
rgds
Mike
also not all CJ engines were 4 bolt mains. all SCJ engines were, but not all CJ engines were 4 bolt mains. i think it was only 71 cj's that got the 4 bolt mains for sure. 70 CJ might or night not have 4 bolt mains depending on when they were produced.
rgds
Mike
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Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: I live in Leitchfield, KY
Thanks Mike, but I'm not all that concerned with the 4 bolt mains, that dont make a dimes bit of difference to me. My main concern was the heads being 2bbl and the year of the engine too. I'm not planning on making high hp out of it, just a driver with lots of torque.
Thanks guys
Thanks guys
Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,591
Likes: 14
From: Pflugerville, tx
Thanks Mike, but I'm not all that concerned with the 4 bolt mains, that dont make a dimes bit of difference to me. My main concern was the heads being 2bbl and the year of the engine too. I'm not planning on making high hp out of it, just a driver with lots of torque.
Thanks guys
Thanks guys
a decent cam, and a set of decent heads (68>=70 x >=73)
lower compression, 73 and above and higher compression 70 and earlier.
a cam weighted more to exhaust timing than intake, as these exhale poorly.
(i'm balanced equal, probably could get another 25-30hp with a better cam)
stock valve sizes will be ok.
the biggest problem is fuel mileage.. with the c6 3 speed, there really isn't anything you can do except a high rear ratio. (2.75-3.00) if you want to go on the highway.
I paid $700 for my pair. on rebuild it was determined that one score on the cylinder required a rebore, but we were already at max.. so I had to buy another shortblock.. so, then engine for me was a waste..
replaced the cam, heads, drive chain, lifters pushrods.. then the shortblock too.
sam
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Posting Guru
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From: I live in Leitchfield, KY
torque is easy with these engines..
a decent cam, and a set of decent heads (68>=70 x >=73)
lower compression, 73 and above and higher compression 70 and earlier.
a cam weighted more to exhaust timing than intake, as these exhale poorly.
(i'm balanced equal, probably could get another 25-30hp with a better cam)
stock valve sizes will be ok.
the biggest problem is fuel mileage.. with the c6 3 speed, there really isn't anything you can do except a high rear ratio. (2.75-3.00) if you want to go on the highway.
I paid $700 for my pair. on rebuild it was determined that one score on the cylinder required a rebore, but we were already at max.. so I had to buy another shortblock.. so, then engine for me was a waste..
replaced the cam, heads, drive chain, lifters pushrods.. then the shortblock too.
sam
a decent cam, and a set of decent heads (68>=70 x >=73)
lower compression, 73 and above and higher compression 70 and earlier.
a cam weighted more to exhaust timing than intake, as these exhale poorly.
(i'm balanced equal, probably could get another 25-30hp with a better cam)
stock valve sizes will be ok.
the biggest problem is fuel mileage.. with the c6 3 speed, there really isn't anything you can do except a high rear ratio. (2.75-3.00) if you want to go on the highway.
I paid $700 for my pair. on rebuild it was determined that one score on the cylinder required a rebore, but we were already at max.. so I had to buy another shortblock.. so, then engine for me was a waste..
replaced the cam, heads, drive chain, lifters pushrods.. then the shortblock too.
sam
Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,591
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From: Pflugerville, tx
Hey Sam, how bad of gas mileage can I expect? I already get around 10mpg's with my 305 chevy. I can squeeze out around 14 on the hwy with the air off, but I think the main problem is it is SO underpowered?? I have a new rebuilt 351W sitting on a stand that I'm considering using in my PU, and using the 429 for my panel truck? Not sure yet, even if I'll buy it. I've bought so many engines over the years to put in the truck and chickened out and not changed it yet. I'm considering throwing my hat over the fence and putting in the 351W with an AOD Ford and some lower gears too. I wouldnt mind the 10mpg's if it had som guts
IF I had a high rear 2.75, I might be able to pull 14ish.. but it'll feel like no guts at the light. I WISH there was an overdrive choice for the BB.
you CAN do an AOD, or 700-r4/4l60 with an adapter (another $800).
the E4OD is junk they say.. unreliable, hard to get built right. expensive to build right.
Personally, thinking back, I might have done a 351W, AOD with my 3.55.
but the BB sure looks nice in there now!..
Sam
Clean & Classy
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,656
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From: Riverside CA..
Have you guys checked out the overdrive units from "US Gear"?
It is just a basic overdrive, in or out. You chose either a 20% or 30% overdrive when purchasing. It comes with either a stick shift or cable shift. It is about $1500 when you can catch it on sale.
Anyway, that is what I have on my "dream list" for my trucks future.
I estimate that I get about 10 mpg around town now, with 3.0 gearing. I am in the middle of a more accurate test right now.
It is just a basic overdrive, in or out. You chose either a 20% or 30% overdrive when purchasing. It comes with either a stick shift or cable shift. It is about $1500 when you can catch it on sale.
Anyway, that is what I have on my "dream list" for my trucks future.
I estimate that I get about 10 mpg around town now, with 3.0 gearing. I am in the middle of a more accurate test right now.
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 800
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From: Edmonton, Alberta Canada
actually the heads are the same between the 2bbl and 4bbl motors. Ford didn't make different heads like on the 351C engines. the 429 was offered with 2bbl or 4bbl intakes while the 460 only had 4bbl intake. the heads were all the same between passanger car engines no matter if it was a 429 or 460.
look for the head casting number above the center exhaust ports. then we can tell what heads you have, if they are the early heads (DOVE offered in 70 and 71) the garbage heads (D2VE 72 model year) or the later heads (D3VE 73 and later till they went to efi).
the DOVE or the D3VE heads make a good starting point with a little work. the D2VE heads make good boat anchors or door stops.
good luck
Mike
look for the head casting number above the center exhaust ports. then we can tell what heads you have, if they are the early heads (DOVE offered in 70 and 71) the garbage heads (D2VE 72 model year) or the later heads (D3VE 73 and later till they went to efi).
the DOVE or the D3VE heads make a good starting point with a little work. the D2VE heads make good boat anchors or door stops.
good luck
Mike
Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,591
Likes: 14
From: Pflugerville, tx
actually the heads are the same between the 2bbl and 4bbl motors. Ford didn't make different heads like on the 351C engines. the 429 was offered with 2bbl or 4bbl intakes while the 460 only had 4bbl intake. the heads were all the same between passanger car engines no matter if it was a 429 or 460.
look for the head casting number above the center exhaust ports. then we can tell what heads you have, if they are the early heads (DOVE offered in 70 and 71) the garbage heads (D2VE 72 model year) or the later heads (D3VE 73 and later till they went to efi).
the DOVE or the D3VE heads make a good starting point with a little work. the D2VE heads make good boat anchors or door stops.
good luck
Mike
look for the head casting number above the center exhaust ports. then we can tell what heads you have, if they are the early heads (DOVE offered in 70 and 71) the garbage heads (D2VE 72 model year) or the later heads (D3VE 73 and later till they went to efi).
the DOVE or the D3VE heads make a good starting point with a little work. the D2VE heads make good boat anchors or door stops.
good luck
Mike
sam