Here are 2 links to a customers engine that I would like to hear others feedback. Please read both threads and give your thoughts.

460 heads - 7879blueovalbronco.com
460 problems - 7879blueovalbronco.com

Thanks!!

Tim Meyer

 

Hummm, probably the same road I been going down dealing with the motorhome.
High cumbustion chamber & exhaust temps & the engine not built right to survive those conditions.
Hes got to have special valves, seat & guides that can withstand the high temps.
By him saying the exhaust manifolds were red, yes I guess they were because they are to restricktive for what hes trying to make that engine do.
Nobody asked what the gearing was in the truck or how much weight in total the engine was a having to pull.
If the engine was in that 4X4 pickup in his avitar, just the pickup alone was enough toll on the engine to cause high heat.
I dont think TMI had all the details of what the engine was being used for or didnt know what needed to be done to the engine so it could survive. They will now though.

After going through about the same thing dealing with my engine, you can rest assured I went to school after that to learn something & when I get through building the replacement engine, its going to be close to being able to do a tractor trailer engines job, that is I hope I can do it good enough.

Ohh, I went two ranges colder on the spark plugs just to try & remove some heat.
Neil

 

quick shot from the hip has anyone checked the exhaust system I had a cat stop up once that made the manifold glow.

 

You gotta ask why it was being rebuilt in the first place. This guy isn't into pissing his money away. I hate "customers" that come in and say put this part in for me or I want this component rebuilt and never mention the original problem. They always come back whining that you didn't fix their problem. Find out what the original problem was and go from there. I bet you find that the heads needed to be replaced because they were cooked too.

 

Only thing about the heads, that company, they dont sound like a back yard shop, sounds like they know what they are doing.

I know in my case dealing with my engine, lot of not knowing about different things because I had never gone through anything like that before. If you dont know you got no idea about all the problems that can pop up.
Customer stated he didnt know anything about building engines so he has no idea what was going on inside the engine & it could be, that company has never had to build an engine for that type of use.

I know now, it is a lot of difference in a engine built for a car or a hot rod truck from one built to pull alot of weight.
Lot of unknowing repair shops over the years, probably had to replace engines they had installed & had no idea the replacement engine had been built wrong.

Owning a shop, sometimes you got to take the time to explain to customers whats going on inside their engine & how its got to be built to perform the work asked of it.

This whole problem stems from, Ford Motor Co not casting those heads with exhaust ports big enough to support what the 460 engines are asked to do, in a weight pulling unit.
Not only that, but allowing those engine & heads to go into service during the 80s year models knowing full well leaded gas could no longer be bought, the main substance that supported the valves. Those heads should have had hard exhaust valve seats in every every engine rolled off the assy line if it was to be for this type of use.

In their defence though, that bottom end & block was a good job well done, but why not the heads, the most important part when it comes to producing power or long life.

I dont know, I guess its like a lot of things in the world today, got to keep a job so you got to do something so you never run out of work you can get paid for.
If it was some way to get rid of all the crime in the world today, we wouldnt need law inforcement, you think that will ever happen.
Neil

 

My horror stories are from my experience in the front end and brake world. Had a guy bring in his car and ask me to install a power steering pump that he supplied. I charged him flat rate and gave him no garrantee on his pump. On the test drive I notice the brakes squeeling, wear sensors. The next day the car was back because I hadn't fixed the problem and he wanted his money back. I kindly told him I had performed the work requested and if he wanted me to fix his problem I would be happy to do the brakes at the normal price. My point is you have to get to the root cause of the original problem and fix it or you'll end up wasting time and money trying to please an idiot. BTW Tim I hope it works out for you and you get it solved.

 

tim from reading your post on the other site you said its got 45 plugs if i remember right thats a plug for the early heads.which will have more than 9 to 1 and will probably cause problems running 87 octane from anywhere.the rest of the build looks good.and timing will be 15426378 on a 460
good luck

 

MAN!!! you sure drove that nail head home about customers .

About 30 minutes of sitting in the office, with that customer, wanting to get his 460 rebuilt, asking him questions & then telling him you need this & that for it to be done right & the cost, would have taken care of alot of problem each are going through. Most likely that didnt happen so now both got to deal with it.
Neil

 

Tim,
Here is my take on this situation. My comments are based on 40 years of experience building drag cars and off-road vehicles.
If you dyno'd that motor, it was good when it left your shop. It sounds to me that you have a customer tinkering with with an engine without the knowledge needed to do so.

BTY--You helped me build a 400 which NOTHING in Eastern Ohio can touch!

 

I did some math on the static c/r for that combo.

Assuming 76 cc early chamber heads, block not decked or decked minimally those short compression height (1.752") pistons with their 22cc dish will be down the bore about .030" + This would yield a static c/r of 8.9 to 1 with very poor quench characteristics. Conversly if the block was decked and the pistons were at or near 0 deck at tdc the static c/r would be 9.5 to 1.

In my experience as a builder of grunt engines for heavy hauling (8K...) this scenereo is a recipe for detonation either way.

The duraspark replacement distributors have mechanical advance curves that vary so much that it is amazing. I have seen 20 to 42 degrees of mechanical advance in the replacement distributors I buy and there is no rhyme or reason to which you will get. Additionally the rate is all over the place too. Add to this that the vacuum advance dashpot is set for some 20 to 25 degrees of additional part throttle advance for EGR and there is a potential for massive detonation.

I gather by the posts that there were some lean condition carb issues ?

Given his intended use that engine would not have been happy on 87 octane fuel and potentially fussy on premium. If the engine went into detonation which it appears that it did I am not surprised that it destroyed itself.

I built a tight quench (.040") 466 with KB 206 15 cc dished pistons and 95 cc D3 castings ported for good flow 307 / 180 @ .600" lift. Static c/r was just a tic under 9 to 1.

comp EX cam 210 / 218 on a 109 lsa.
performer intake and 750 eddy carb with 1" 4 hole spacer
Dual snorkle air cleaner ducted to cool air
Curved dizzy 34 total at 3K with only 10 degrees of vacuum advance at part throttle. 14 degrees initial.

The van weighed 5800 pounds empty and about 8K loaded and towing a small trailer. This combo needed premium fuel and was fussy even then.


hedman elites with an x and 2.5" magnaflow exhaust.

Chassis dyno numbers were great at 290 HP and 390 torque with a 2200 stall convertor and that massive 1 ton drive line.

I just wonder if that yahoo was driving that thing in constant detonation not having enough sense to say wait a minute something is amiss here.

With all due respect there are so many unknowns here in addition to the high c/r vs intended use that I am not at all surprised at the outcome.

Hypereutectic pistons are brittle and not very detonation friendly. I can see them coming apart, damaging plugs, tweeking valves which then fail etc etc. All the while is seems that dude was just driving along pushing it even after it was aparent that something was desperately wrong. There is such a thing as ordinary care which the client did not seem to excersise.

 

have you had any luck tim with this motor?

 

Autolite plugs are junk. I'm not talking about their race plugs. I couldn't get a set of MC plugs once and tryed a set. In 2 miles it started running bad. Went back home & thought for a minute, the only thing I did was change plugs so I took them back out. Something like 3 or 4 of them, the insulators and electrodes just melted off to the side. I sent the set back & they did give me my money though.