Technical discussion point... HPX line
Go Bills !
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,778
Likes: 65
From: Buffalo, NY
I was looking at it when i put on the HPX.. My first through is nothing moves through it. The tubing acts as just an accumulator when the shock of the injectors close/open. I looked up the hoses and the hoses are the same length. Could be wrong, just my initial thought when i installed it. I kind of just think that is just sits there and bounces around and very little movement happens , if any, seeing that it is fed at a high rate from the equal length/ dia.size hoses. Just a thought. And it would be interesting to set something up to see it in action.
Junior User
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 71
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From: Kentucky
Just a thought but shouldn't the oil lines in each head retain their prime after engine shut down. If this weren't the case air would be pumped into the injectors and I would guess lead to prmature failure or a no start condition.so it stands to reason the HPX would also retain a solid prime, thus no vapor. I am new to this mod and haven't done it myself yet but it sound like it does smooth out the engine which leads me to believe there is some fluid flow in the HPX. Just thinking out lod.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,661
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From: Bridgewater, VA
Wellllll there is one way to solve this... Is there a clear material that can withstand those pressures and temperature? May be time for a special made piece to view exactly what does happen... thinking outloud also but this did cross my mind
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Dallas-Ft. Worth
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,541
Likes: 2
From: Dallas-Ft. Worth
I really think y'all are over-thinking this. There is flow in the HPX, just like there's flow through the entire HPOP system....
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,600
Likes: 3
From: Carhenge
Lets think about this logically-- the line is basically shaped something like a M.
If there is no movement of oil through the line......then there would be a static air bubble in the middle of the line that will stay there. when you start the engine, the air would compress down to almost nothing and almost fill the crossover with oil because of oil pressure, but when you shut it down, the air would expand and push the oil back out.
So even if there was no flow across the heads (and there is), there still wouldn't be static oil in the HPX long term.
Next question.
If there is no movement of oil through the line......then there would be a static air bubble in the middle of the line that will stay there. when you start the engine, the air would compress down to almost nothing and almost fill the crossover with oil because of oil pressure, but when you shut it down, the air would expand and push the oil back out.
So even if there was no flow across the heads (and there is), there still wouldn't be static oil in the HPX long term.
Next question.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,966
Likes: 50
From: Texas
Just a thought but shouldn't the oil lines in each head retain their prime after engine shut down. If this weren't the case air would be pumped into the injectors and I would guess lead to prmature failure or a no start condition.so it stands to reason the HPX would also retain a solid prime, thus no vapor. I am new to this mod and haven't done it myself yet but it sound like it does smooth out the engine which leads me to believe there is some fluid flow in the HPX. Just thinking out lod.
I'd guess there is a good possibility that some amount of ATF would mix with the oil to give it a tint. Unless you're talking about taking a look after 20k miles, an inspection after a short run may not be that useful.
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Of the next Riffraff East
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,679
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From: Concord NC
My thinking is somewhat simple, but it both rails are equal enough if pressure that the HPX would just be a buffer, then it wouldn't be needed. If any pressure differance is there, oil will flow to the lower side pressure, thus trying to balance the pressure. I betting there is pretty good flow from driver to passanger side.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,966
Likes: 50
From: Texas
Lets think about this logically-- the line is basically shaped something like a M.
If there is no movement of oil through the line......then there would be a static air bubble in the middle of the line that will stay there. when you start the engine, the air would compress down to almost nothing and almost fill the crossover with oil because of oil pressure, but when you shut it down, the air would expand and push the oil back out.
So even if there was no flow across the heads (and there is), there still wouldn't be static oil in the HPX long term.
Next question.
If there is no movement of oil through the line......then there would be a static air bubble in the middle of the line that will stay there. when you start the engine, the air would compress down to almost nothing and almost fill the crossover with oil because of oil pressure, but when you shut it down, the air would expand and push the oil back out.
So even if there was no flow across the heads (and there is), there still wouldn't be static oil in the HPX long term.
Next question.
This mods been out far too long for me to say there's anything wrong with it. I just enjoy these types of discussions. Understanding how thins work make them a lot easier to fix.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,600
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From: Carhenge
In addition, every time I have pulled my HPX, it has been full of oil. Where did the air go that was in it when I installed it?
I've head some goofy things, but I've never heard that you need to pre-fill the HPX line.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,966
Likes: 50
From: Texas
Does the drivers side really require that much additional oil Joe? You'd almost think if the oil moved that well at over 2,000 psi, then you would notice some performance issues without the HPX.
Thread Starter
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Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,286
Likes: 263
From: North of Greenville
I agree fully, and I don't think anyone here would argue with you about this, but it is not the question at hand.
What is it that makes you so sure about that? I, too, believe that there is oil "movement", but not having factual flow data makes our opinions about this just that - opinions and varying degrees of educated speculation. I'm NOT saying your wrong, mind you... just that we have no real design or measured data to substantiate our suspicions.
Chris... you're doing an excellent job of fleshing out my thought process in all regards.
Here here!!
... For the sake of argument, let's say the HPO system has a temporary shortage of oil on the drivers side with the 6 then 8 firing, are you sure the 7 then 3 does not send a similar amount of oil back toward the passenger side? If so, how much oil are we talking about? Is it enough volume to clear the line, or just take some oil from each edge of the line?.
