Question and Issue
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Posting Guru
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Question and Issue
Question:
I was wondering what temps are you guys running on your new just rebuiilt engine...my 400 is runnning at 195 maybe goin on 200 with an aluminum 4 row radiato no fan shroud, the stock belt driven fan, stock water pump no thermostat... I havent seen that big difference in using a shroud and not using it, also would an aftermarket water pump better things? I have never used one, alway OEM replacements on my engines..
Issue:
Ok, today i was just adjusting my engine and let it run for like 2 hrs to get it into temp, so, at 190 I turned it off and tried to turn it on again, it started acting like if there was no battery, i checked the battery and it had alot juice in it, so i tried and backed up te timming a bit and it came on agian... I made 2 hypotheis of it, it could be dizzy related (New OEM replacement) or crank preasure is getting stuck some where
that could also cause an overheat, I saw the typical steam comming out of the pcv hole on the drivers side but not on the pasengers side, what do you guys think?
I was wondering what temps are you guys running on your new just rebuiilt engine...my 400 is runnning at 195 maybe goin on 200 with an aluminum 4 row radiato no fan shroud, the stock belt driven fan, stock water pump no thermostat... I havent seen that big difference in using a shroud and not using it, also would an aftermarket water pump better things? I have never used one, alway OEM replacements on my engines..
Issue:
Ok, today i was just adjusting my engine and let it run for like 2 hrs to get it into temp, so, at 190 I turned it off and tried to turn it on again, it started acting like if there was no battery, i checked the battery and it had alot juice in it, so i tried and backed up te timming a bit and it came on agian... I made 2 hypotheis of it, it could be dizzy related (New OEM replacement) or crank preasure is getting stuck some where
that could also cause an overheat, I saw the typical steam comming out of the pcv hole on the drivers side but not on the pasengers side, what do you guys think?
Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,922
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I would put a shroud on it and a 160* thermostat. Thats all I ever ran in my old 400's with the stock rad and never had a heat problem. Running a engine without a thermostat is a bad idea. One word of caution, with a fresh engine you don't want to over heat it or you can forget the rings ever seating. Are you sure you didn't over heat it ? Did you put a breaker bar on the crank bolt and see if it was free when it didn't want to turn over ? I don't like the sound of the smoke comming out the breather, sounds like a compression leak.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: chicago burbs
there's no such thing as a 160* Tstat for a 335 series engine.
2 hrs to get it up to temp? what Tstat do you have in it? should take like 5 mins.
advanced timing will act like a low/dead battery, cranking slow and chuggy. or did it not try to turn at all?
2 hrs to get it up to temp? what Tstat do you have in it? should take like 5 mins.
advanced timing will act like a low/dead battery, cranking slow and chuggy. or did it not try to turn at all?
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: The Vieux Ford, Kansas
What were you adjusting? If you were timing it I would suspect too much advance. If you are running headers and had it idle for 2 hrs the starter could have just been too hot. I had a set of long tubes on a 66 Fairlane that wrapped pretty close to the starter and if it ran for more than about a 1/2 hour it had to cool down that long before it would turn over again, wrapped the starter and it helped but starters don't like cooking. Oh and not running a thermostat is never a good idea you have to control the flow of water in the radiator or it passes through so quickly it doesn't have time to cool. I was also wandering how far you fan is from the radiator? If its more that 2 or 3 inches I think a fan shroud would help out a lot, but if you gauge is reading right it doesn't sound like an over heating problem, but on the other hand if it took 2 hrs to reach 190 I might wander about that gauge. Hope you get her squared away nothing is worse than having trouble with a new motor.
-Johnboy
-Johnboy
Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2004
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Sure there is. Get one for a older Chevy small block, fits right in.
Thread Starter
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Posting Guru
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Ok, no the engine has never overheated, in fact, Im just saying its running hotter than before... I built first the bottom end then ive been changing the upper parts alot, I was running the stock old valves which are really worn (im asuming thats were the leak is), im pulling the heads for the last time to change them for some new single piece-single groove valves....
The engine has seen probably around 50 miles or so on 180 degrees with a bigger cam, i changed it to a smaller cam and it started working hotter, i asume from the dynamic compression gain. Now its running on 195 which ive heard is good.
Yeah the starter was cranking slow and chuggy, also im running long tubes son john boy should be right, i might need to wrap it up, or is there another solution for this?
I will get a thermostat, although I always thought it as a source of heatting up the engine faster, a chevy tstat, are you sure? ive heard this engines use a very unique kinda tstat...
The engine has seen probably around 50 miles or so on 180 degrees with a bigger cam, i changed it to a smaller cam and it started working hotter, i asume from the dynamic compression gain. Now its running on 195 which ive heard is good.
Yeah the starter was cranking slow and chuggy, also im running long tubes son john boy should be right, i might need to wrap it up, or is there another solution for this?
I will get a thermostat, although I always thought it as a source of heatting up the engine faster, a chevy tstat, are you sure? ive heard this engines use a very unique kinda tstat...
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: chicago burbs
absolutely WRONG
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2004
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No, you are "absolutely wrong" Don't even try to tell me that. I've been running Stant # 13356's in 335's for a long time and they are 160*. If you want a high flow Go to summit & get a Milidon they even list a high flow one.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,198
Likes: 9
From: Fairmont
I'll throw in my 2 cents.
I run an engine as hot as possible, that can be controlled. An engine is more
efficient the hotter it runs. There are tests that shows also there is less wear
in an engine that is warmer also.
Thermostats, I have never run the proper "Robert Shaw" thermostat.
I have never had an issue either.
I run an engine as hot as possible, that can be controlled. An engine is more
efficient the hotter it runs. There are tests that shows also there is less wear
in an engine that is warmer also.
Thermostats, I have never run the proper "Robert Shaw" thermostat.
I have never had an issue either.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,003
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From: chicago burbs
Tim, i agree, i like the way my engine runs warmer rather than cooler, but do you do anything special to allow the use of a non-bypass style thermostat in a bypass cooling system?
i do.
if a daily driver 335 engine ever gets into a low coolant situation where there's not enough coolant to make it up and out of the water neck, and the INCORRECT thermostat allows all the coolant to recirculate through the block and none ever goes to the radiator... well... you know what happens. and it ain't pretty.
telling the average joe to use an incorrect thermostat is ABSOLUTELY WRONG
in a race or other closely watched application where what you do is up to you, it's your engine and you're the guy footin the bill... hey, have at it...
but a lot of these guys need their stuff to last more than one season or one more run, and telling them to undermine their cooling systems with an INCORRECT thermostat is
ABSOLUTELY WRONG
i do.
if a daily driver 335 engine ever gets into a low coolant situation where there's not enough coolant to make it up and out of the water neck, and the INCORRECT thermostat allows all the coolant to recirculate through the block and none ever goes to the radiator... well... you know what happens. and it ain't pretty.
telling the average joe to use an incorrect thermostat is ABSOLUTELY WRONG
in a race or other closely watched application where what you do is up to you, it's your engine and you're the guy footin the bill... hey, have at it...
but a lot of these guys need their stuff to last more than one season or one more run, and telling them to undermine their cooling systems with an INCORRECT thermostat is
ABSOLUTELY WRONG
Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 964
Likes: 1
From: Roseburg, OR
As has kind of been hinted at, unless you are living in the middle of Death Valley, you don't need a too-cold thermostat. If your truck won't stay cool with the stock thermostat and you're not really working it hard, you've got another problem.
Proper mixture of antifreeze and distilled water
Stock pressure radiator cap
Stock temperature thermostat
Stock fan shroud
Known-good (they go bad!) clutch fan of the proper diameter
Clean radiator of the proper size / capacity
Clean water passages in the block and heads
Correct timing
Correct fuel mixture
And of course, well-sealing heads, hoses, and thermostat housing.
All of that will pretty much make a good cooling system.
Proper mixture of antifreeze and distilled water
Stock pressure radiator cap
Stock temperature thermostat
Stock fan shroud
Known-good (they go bad!) clutch fan of the proper diameter
Clean radiator of the proper size / capacity
Clean water passages in the block and heads
Correct timing
Correct fuel mixture
And of course, well-sealing heads, hoses, and thermostat housing.
All of that will pretty much make a good cooling system.
Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,922
Likes: 152
Tim, i agree, i like the way my engine runs warmer rather than cooler, but do you do anything special to allow the use of a non-bypass style thermostat in a bypass cooling system?
i do.
if a daily driver 335 engine ever gets into a low coolant situation where there's not enough coolant to make it up and out of the water neck, and the INCORRECT thermostat allows all the coolant to recirculate through the block and none ever goes to the radiator... well... you know what happens. and it ain't pretty.
telling the average joe to use an incorrect thermostat is ABSOLUTELY WRONG
in a race or other closely watched application where what you do is up to you, it's your engine and you're the guy footin the bill... hey, have at it...
but a lot of these guys need their stuff to last more than one season or one more run, and telling them to undermine their cooling systems with an INCORRECT thermostat is
ABSOLUTELY WRONG
i do.
if a daily driver 335 engine ever gets into a low coolant situation where there's not enough coolant to make it up and out of the water neck, and the INCORRECT thermostat allows all the coolant to recirculate through the block and none ever goes to the radiator... well... you know what happens. and it ain't pretty.
telling the average joe to use an incorrect thermostat is ABSOLUTELY WRONG
in a race or other closely watched application where what you do is up to you, it's your engine and you're the guy footin the bill... hey, have at it...
but a lot of these guys need their stuff to last more than one season or one more run, and telling them to undermine their cooling systems with an INCORRECT thermostat is
ABSOLUTELY WRONG
Elder User
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 998
Likes: 2
From: Benton, AR
I've read somewhere about sludge buildup and some other negative affects due to running engine too cool. Prior to reading I was under the opposite impression and thought I was doing the engine a favor by running cooler. I am almost finished putting my 351c together and went with a 190 or 195 thermostat.
later
later
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,003
Likes: 2
From: chicago burbs
mark, you obviously don't understand or care to understand how the 335 cooling system works. a 'dimensionally same' chevy or Windsor style thermostat does not control the INTERNAL BYPASS of the 335 series engines.
the spring is not the difference.
ARE Cooling (Aluminium Radiators & Engineering P/L)
here you are running a 160* stat in an attempt to run slightly lower operating temperature, all the while a significant amount of your coolant is just recirculating through the block and never going to the radiator. as your engine reaches 160* your stat opens sure enough, so what? it's not shutting off the bypass. the only thing controlling the temp of your engine is the balance between the amount of coolant going to the radiator and the amount of coolant recirculating through the bypass.
if for any reason you coolant level goes low, that balance is gone, all the coolant will only recirculate and you'll overheat FAST, rather than what coolant you have left going to the radiator like it should and you keep driving.
good luck, i've explained it enough for you.
the spring is not the difference.
ARE Cooling (Aluminium Radiators & Engineering P/L)
here you are running a 160* stat in an attempt to run slightly lower operating temperature, all the while a significant amount of your coolant is just recirculating through the block and never going to the radiator. as your engine reaches 160* your stat opens sure enough, so what? it's not shutting off the bypass. the only thing controlling the temp of your engine is the balance between the amount of coolant going to the radiator and the amount of coolant recirculating through the bypass.
if for any reason you coolant level goes low, that balance is gone, all the coolant will only recirculate and you'll overheat FAST, rather than what coolant you have left going to the radiator like it should and you keep driving.
good luck, i've explained it enough for you.