Because for years, ArtsBest has refused to post items in the correct forums

 

Feel free to report these threads to us. We don't have a thousand eyes like a fly you know.

 

From here on out I will.

 

Kinda like the U.S. government right?

 

Bankruptcy does not equal out of business. Frankly going bankrupt is probably the absolute BEST thing they can do. It allows them court protection to essentially shed debt, as well as break labor contracts. Not gonna say all of the retirees who are relying on GM for survival will be happy... but the company will be.

 

My dad is a ford retiree and he was worried about his pension. He was told that his pension was protected by the goveremnt through a private agency or some crap as that. At anyrate, he was assured he would still get his lousey 600.00$ a month from ford, the rest of his monthly income he gets from SS.

 

If GM goes bankrupt, I wouldn't be surprised to see them come out smelling like a rose. They'll get to start out on a clean slate, where Ford is just staying afloat. So far the government is rewarding people that can't control their debt, I don't see why it would be different with GM. If it's anything like the housing crisis, Us Ford owners will probably be the ones paying for GM's bailout.

 

They should have declared Chapter 11 in December. Taking a "loan" from us that they knew they had no hope of paying back was fraud, IMO. BK is sometimes the only answer.

CEO Fritz Henderson has sent plenty of signals, such as on Meet The Press, that they will go C11 soon. Can you imagine you company being led by some guy named Fritz? My main problem with those guys is that they absolutely refuse to publicly take any blame for the state of the company they lead. Its always "outside forces", never any bad management decisions. Fritz has been there for 25 years, so it is his fault.

Pensions are not an issue. Just like in airline bankruptcies, they are guaranteed. Stockholders are wiped out and bondholders fleeced. Union workers will be much better off with a viable employer, vs the alternative, which is slowly bleeding down to nothing.

Jim

 

If GM had not received the bailout money from Bush, they would be in Chapter 11 now.

GM will be forced to declare bankruptcy (Chapter 11), it's only a matter of time. They have already spent the Bush bailout money...just to survive.

GM is presently burning thru 1.2 billion dollars a month.

Chapter 11: The UAW contracts will be canceled, the warranty's will be canceled. The Bankruptcy Court will try and sell off the GM brands they feel are not viable.

This means you can kiss: Buick, Hummer, Pontiac, Saturn (possibly GMC Trucks) goodbye. If no buyers are found, these brands will just be dropped.

This will leave GM with Chevrolet & Cadillac. Speculation is GMC Trucks will survive...because of their huge fleet business.

Going Chapter 11 means that GM can cancel their dealer franchise agreements, which means their bloated dealer network could be reduced by as much as 60%.

In Sweden, GM has already put their SAAB brand into Bankruptcy Court. The Swedish Gov't has refused to bail out SAAB, which will prolly go out of business.

In Germany, Adam Opel AG which GM has owned since 1931, is about ready to fold the tent.

The German Gov't has refused Opel any bailout money, no one is interested in buying Opel, and with Saturn gone, there won't be any need for Opel.

In South Korea, Daewoo will prolly survive because in China...Buick is one of the top selling cars.

But...you cannot buy these "Buick's" anywhere but China...because these cars are nothing more than re-badged Daewoo's. The Chevy Aveo is another re-badged Daewoo.

The current administration is beholden to unions?

The Obama Administration has given ChryCo 30 DAYS to merge with another company. If ChryCo cannot merge with someone else, they will get NO more bail out money.

This means that if ChryCo cannot find a partner (FIAT has been mentioned), they will most likely file for Chapter 7 bankruptcy = which means ChryCo will be dis-solved.

The Bankruptcy Court will try and find buyers for Chrysler, Jeep, Dodge and Dodge Trucks. If no buyers are found....you can kiss these brands goodbye.

btw: When GM and ChryCo file for bankrutcy, you can also kiss all the bailout money they have received...goodbye.

 

Exactly, monthly car sales reports are showing all the GM brands dropping like stones. Chrysler is exactly the same...old story. Ford is doing bad, but not as bad as GM or Chrysler, percentage-wise. The only company seeing increased sales is Subaru. People see the Big 3 as weak and don't realize Ford is the strongest not taking any bailout money yet and the debt recently paid.

The public and GM are expecting the worst for the automotive giant. A CHINESE automaker has offered $1 billion for Buick (which is worth sooooooo much more than that) because of Buick's declining US sales and staggering Chinese sales. With GM having 3 buyers for Hummer, a couple interesting in Saturn (one wanting to turn it into a HIGH-END LUXURY BRAND) and Saab getting ready to go stand-alone, it is going to be an interesting couple of months for GM. I don't know about Ford or Chrysler in the news much. Doubt it will be very interesting at all.

 

Oh I agree completely. But the current administration has no intention of allowing labor contracts to be broken, no matter what it does to the company, or the taxpayer or the economy.

 

What they say they're GOING to do, is very different than what they do. I'll believe that they will allow GM and/or Chrysler to go bankrupt when it happens.

 

GM has had Hummer for sale for over a year. No one was interested.

Fritz Henderson now says there are three buyers for Hummer, but has refused to name them.

So...who are these so-called three buyers that just emerged?

One Chinese automaker has expressed interest in Buick, but as of Wednesday evening, had not made an offer.

I read several in-house auto trade journals, and belong to several autobiz related websites.

There hasn't been a peep anywhere that says someone is really interested in buying Saturn.

Since GM owned Adam Opel AG is in-solvent, and will prolly go out of business, where will any potential buyers get Opel's that Saturn uses for VUE's and Aura's?

The Vue is nothing more than a rebadged Opel, some of the parts come from Daewoo, the car is assembled in Mexico.

The Aura and Chevy Malibu are both based on Opels.

 

How many years have you been in the autobiz?

My family owned Olds & Cadillac dealerships for 80 years. I personally have been in the autobiz for nearly 50 years.

Because I've been involved in the autobiz for decades, including the collector aspect, I know how the autobiz operates.

Have you been reading any recent history of what is going on?

GM and ChryCo are BROKE. It's only a matter of time before both will go bankrupt..that's the bottom line.

You cannot squeeze blood from a turnip!

 

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying. I'm not saying anything about the auto business. I'm talking about the government business. You can always squeeze more blood out of a taxpayer. At least from the gov's perspective.

We'll see in about 3 weeks. If ChryCo doesn't make it's deal with Fiat and the gov allows them to go into bankruptcy, then I'll very happily be wrong. But I doubt it will happen. The gov will continue to pour cash into them until the economy recovers enough that they can continue on as they have been.