So... I've read many a post on how sucky altitude is, but no real fixes. What can I do to make this thing smoke less? I see all the smoke and would like to get more air in to match it. Also, my EGTs are wicked high. Would a 6.0 IC do me any good? Thx!

 

Have you checked to make sure there are no boost leaks?

 

Talk to Jody about changing your shifting and fueling (especially on the bottom end) for high altitude. Keeping the fuel out on the bottom end, and keeping the RPM's up a bit higher really helps a lot.

A 6.0L I/C won't change anything in regards to smoke. It will only reduce EGT's when you are really working the engine hard, and at higher RPM's. Most of your smoke is on the bottom end before your turbo really spools up.

 

What kind of EGT's are we talking? Yeah like Pocket said don't bother with the 6.0 IC. Not worth it.

Altitude can cause problems... but aren't stock trucks still ok? I can understand why a GT42 will have problems.. but a stocker?? Might help to loose the WW and go back to the stock wheel. Then stick on an ATS housing... ??

 

Well for the I/C, the 6.0L is worth it on stock injectors. I saw a 100 degree drop in EGT's at WOT, so it helped. Also I got everything I needed for under $200, so not a bad deal. But as I mentioned, it won't do anything for smoke control if that's what the OP is looking for.

As for the stock turbo and altitude, yes it does lag. That's the first thing I noticed when I moved out here from South Carolina. Turbo lag is much more noticeable, and these trucks smoke a lot more at high altitude, even in stock tuning.

When Jody started making his live tuning trips to Denver, he found out quickly how different it is tuning for high altitude compared to the rest. That's the drawback of living in the mountains

But I'll take the scenery any day

 

thanks...

 

No problem. It's always a surprise for folks when they've never driven their PSD's in altitude before, and they get up in the mountains the first time. They always end up thinking something is wrong with their trucks.

My truck has these 36" tires and stock 3.73's when I lived in SC. Out there, I had no issues at all driving and towing. Moving to CO completely changed that, as even driving around empty was aggravating. I had to change the gearing out to 4.30's to get my driveability back.

 

I made the boost leak detector and everything looks fine. No up-pipe leaks either. From what I hear high EGT's are typical this high up. I'm hoping for a somewhat inexpensive way to compensate for no air up here.

 

Agreed on the smoke, it's kind of fun anyway. I just hate to think how much more power I would have if I had the air to match the smoke! Top end EGTs are whats killing me though.

 

I couldn't run an 1/8mi without lifting if I wanted to. I push 1200+ in no ime at all. Wouldn't the ATS make me more laggy?

 

I love going home to South Tx. This truck runs great. No smoke, EGTs never get too high, and just plain feels better.

I'll have to give Jody a call and see if I got the HA tunes to begin with. Pretty sure we talked about that when I ordered.

10-4 on the mountain scenery.

Thanks!

 

EGT's in short bursts like drag racing is no problem. With a chip and the stock turbo/intercooler/etc, I would see 1450-1500 degrees at Bandimere thanks to the altitude. Now with the current mods that I have, my EGT's stay right under 1200 degrees when drag racing.

The numbers you are seeing is normal for high altitude. You'll have to do some additional mods if you want those temps to drop.

 

To eliminate visible smoke the AFR=Air Fuel Ratio needs to be maintained at a value of 18 or higher. The AFR is given by AFR=MAF/MFF where MAF=Mass Air Flow lb/min and MFF=Mass Fuel Flow lb/min. You can read the details here... https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...ing-smoke.html ...for how I derived the following equation for AFR...

AFR={(VE)(CID)(RPM)(AAP+BP)}/{(MAT+459.67)(VFF)(DFD)(21.308)}

...where VE=Volumetric Efficiency a ratio 0 to 1, CID={(Nc)(Pi/4)(Bore)^2(Stroke)} in^3, Nc=Number of Cylinders, RPM=Crankshaft revs/min, AAP=Atmospheric Air Pressure psi, BP=Boost Pressure psi, MAT=Manifold Air Temperature F, VFF=Volume Fuel Flow gal/hr=gph, and DFD=Diesel Fuel Density lb/gal which is typically about 7 lb/gal for #2 diesel at room temperature.

In this above AFR equation the driver only has a direct control of the RPM and an indirect control of the BP which is determined in part by how much throttle is being applied at a given RPM. The BP along with the AAP, the ambient temperature, the turbo efficiency, and the IC efficiency determines the MAT. The VE and the CID are determined by the basic engine design, the VFF is determined by the tuning, the DFD by the fuel type, winter or summer #2 diesel, or various grades of bio fuel, and that leaves the AAP which of course is determined directly by the altitude.

The graph below shows how AAP varies with altitude. I'll first assume a AAP=14.7 psi for sea level and plug some numbers into the AFR equation to show how it works, but then I need to give an equation for how higher altitudes effect the BP because that's the reason why you get more smoke at altitude!



For a 7.3L PSD the CID={(Nc)(Pi/4)(Bore)^2(Stroke)}={(8)(Pi/4)(4.11)^2(4.18)}=443.65 in^3. Assume the DFD=7 lb/gal and that you've got an auto tranny and you're towing a load up a long grade in 3rd gear at 100% WOT and you have a RPM=2,800, BP=26 psi, VE=0.6975, MAT=158 F, VFF=21.21 gph, and I got these numbers from my computer model for a "tuned" PSD engine that's producing 309 RWHP at this operating point.

AFR={(VE)(CID)(RPM)(AAP+BP)}/{(MAT+459.67)(VFF)(DFD)(21.308)}={(0.6975)(443.65) (2,800)(14.7+26)}/{(158+459.67)(21.21)(7)(21.308)}=18.1 so at sea level we're right on the verge of producing some visible smoke!

You can read the details here... https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...ml#post7228722 ...for how I derived the following equation for BP...

BP={(AAP)(TPR-1)}-{(TPR)(AFPD/27.68)}-(ICPD) psi

...where AAP=Atmospheric Air Pressure psi, TPR=Turbo Pressure Ratio, AFPD=Air Filter Pressure Drop Inches H20, and ICPD=Intercooler Pressure Drop psi.

From this BP equation you see that the effect of AAP is magnified by (TPR-1)... for example at a TPR=3 a sea level AAP=14.7 psi gives a {(AAP)(TPR-1)}={(14.7)(3-1)}=29.4 psi contribution to BP but at a 6,000 ft altitude a AAP=11.77 psi only gives only a {(AAP)(TPR-1)}={(11.77)(3-1)}=23.5 psi contribution to BP which is a 5.9 psi reduction relative to sea level!

The effect of AFPD is magnified by the (TPR)... for example at a TPR=3 a AFPD=13.8" H20=0.5 psi causes a 1.5 psi reduction in BP.

The ICPD trades one-for-one with BP... for example a 0.5 psi reduction in ICPD provides 0.5 psi of additional BP.

So for a TPR=3, AFPD=13.8" H20, and ICPD=1.9 psi the maximum BP at AAP=14.7 psi sea level is...

BP={(AAP)(TPR-1)}-{(TPR)(AFPD/27.68)}-(ICPD)={(14.7)(3-1)}-{(3)(13.8/27.68)}-(1.9)=29.4-1.5-1.9=26 psi.

...and for a TPR=3, AFPD=13.8" H20, and ICPD=1.9 psi the maximum BP at AAP=11.77 psi 6,000 ft altitude is...

BP={(AAP)(TPR-1)}-{(TPR)(AFPD/27.68)}-(ICPD)={(11.77)(3-1)}-{(3)(13.8/27.68)}-(1.9)=23.5-1.5-1.9=20.1 psi.

If you really push a stock turbo with a WW at 6,000 ft it will operate at a TPR=3.34 and produce a "surge free" BP=24 psi at RPM=2,800 RPM. If you try this trick with a stock compressor wheel the turbo will surge severely and self destruct!

BP={(AAP)(TPR-1)}-{(TPR)(AFPD/27.68)}-(ICPD)={(11.77)(3.34-1)}-{(3.34)(13.8/27.68)}-(1.9)=27.5-1.67-1.9=24 psi.

As before assume you're towing a load up a long grade in 3rd gear at 100% WOT and you have a RPM=2,800, but now at AAP=11.77 psi 6,000 ft altitude BP=24 psi, VE=0.7003, MAT=165 F, VFF=20.37 gph, and I got these numbers from my computer model for a "tuned" PSD engine that's producing 241 RWHP at this operating point.

Note that even though the RWHP deceases from 309 RWHP to 241 RWHP, and the BP decreases from 26 psi to 24 psi that the MAT increases from 158 F to 165 F and this is because the TPR increases from 3.0 to 3.34 which means that the turbo is working harder and producing more heat to make a 24 psi BP and 241 RWHP at a 6,000 ft altitude than it is to make a 26 psi BP and 309 RWHP at sea level!

At higher altitudes your turbo has to work much harder to generate less BP and make less RWHP and this is the reason why it's not a good practice to use an "open element" under the hood air filter because such a filter ingests hotter than necessary air and this makes the turbo work even harder to compress this less dense hotter air! If you tow heavy at altitude get a "cold air intake" and your turbo will thank you by performing better and lasting longer!

Now putting these numbers into the AFR equation we get...

AFR={(VE)(CID)(RPM)(AAP+BP)}/{(MAT+459.67)(VFF)(DFD)(21.308)}={(0.7003)(443.65) (2,800)(11.77+24)}/{(165+459.67)(20.37)(7)(21.308)}=16.4 so at a 6,000 ft altitude the AFR is well less than the required value of 18 and we're producing a noticeable amount of visible smoke!

So what to do? If you retune and reduce the VFF to increase the AFR the truck will smoke less and have less RWHP! The pictures below show my cheap fix for increasing my towing performance in the mountains. Ugly by some standards but I guarantee it's been proven to be highly effective!

Not only does the stock Ford setup draw hot air from under the hood into the air filter inlet, but it also forces 100% of the ambient air flow to go through the restriction of the AC condenser where it picks up a lot of heat before going through the IC.

My version of the Zoodad mod below supplies cool ambient air to the air filter inlet as well as to under the hood and some airflow directly to the IC because I removed the rubber baffle on the right hand side of the AC condenser that blocks air flow to the IC.



By removing the rubber baffle shown here that seals off the top of the AC condenser...



...you get a lot more direct air flow through the IC.

 

How short of a burst are we talking? This is my daily driver so as soon as I see the pyro upwards of 1200 I lift. What are some of the cheaper mods I can do to see lower EGTs? Would water/meth be a good idea?

Thanks!

 

Even though short duration bursts of excessive temperature won't immediately "crack" the top of a piston such bursts do cause some "micro" damage that accumulates over time and eventually causes piston failure!