Hi Folks,
There has been quite a lot posted regarding modification and fabrication of frames for purposes strengthening, accomodating drive trains and modifying suspension systems. Let me also say that there has been quite a bit of nice work shown.

I have noticed that there really has not been very much discussed regarding types and alloys of steel used, or types of rod or wire type and size used in MIG welding. I have also noticed that there doesn't seem to be anyone fabricating complete frames and rolling chassis. As much darkside work as I have seen going on on this forum I am a bit surprised I haven't seen any complete frames. Of course it could be i just missed something.

I would really like to see some work done that has use various types of formed steel like box tubes and etc.

Later Folks...

 

well with all the work i did to my frame is should of just built it from scratch! used 1/8 plate to box in the frame, 1/4 inch plate for my air bag mount and c notch, 1/4 inch plate for re-inforcing the crown vic front end, 1/4 inch box tubing for my front rad mount, all migged with .035 wire.

 

I'm kind of thinking the same on that count. I have built lots of trailers from scratch as well as a few vehicles for off road use and I really liked working with rectangular box tube. I am amazed at how strong the stuff is. I have an enclosed trailer that has a frame made of that stuff amd it has hauled some pretty heavy vehicles for long distances over some pretty gnarley roads. I think I could make a lot cleaner looking job building from scratch and incorporating various front and rear suspension systems from donor vehicles. It just seems as though there would be a lot less cutting, fitting and modifying stuff. I am also thinking I could end up with a lighter and stronger frame. Essentially we are making ridid or at least semi-rigid frames from the old flex frames.

Later Man...

 

1/4 inch rectangular box tube would be perfect, there`s only two bends in the frame (front half and at the rear end) so it would be easy to build and would look super clean! and sexy! would be way stronger than a stressed out 55 year old frame boxed in! i got to quit thinking of this! might end up starting all over with my frame!

 

I used 3/16 inch plate for boxing my frame and 1/4 inch 2x4 rectangle for the bracket that holds my shockwaves. Pics in my gallery if you're interested. .35 Mig wire here also.

Not sure if the steel is hot or cold rolled.

 

I think 1/4" wall thickness is overkill. Take a look at a box tube boom on an engine hoist. Those things will lift 4,000+ without any sweat. I lifted my Bridgeport mill with that box tube fully extended and rolled it around. That was 1/8" wall thickness. Take a look at the wall thickness in the heavy half ton truck frames of the F-150s. A little engineering goes a long way.

Later Man...

 

Dave you must have a healthy engine crane. I just moved my Bridgeport also but I rolled it on pipe, I think that my Bridgeport is 2500#. I moved my 2 post lift columns with my engine crane but that is less than 1/2 the weight of my Bridgeport.

 

Not really, it came from Advance Auto. there is a picture of it and my Bridgeport on my website. Yep, that's about right for the weight. I think they vary a little bit because of table length. Later on we used it to move a big LeBlond lathe and I think we put a little bit of a sideways tilt to it but the boom never had a problem. That lather weighed about 3,600#.

Later Man...

 

Great discussion topic.
I doubt most guys think about the metal grade while doing basic frame and suspension work. It's when you are building for race and extreme use, that you need to be looking at metal grade, like chromemoly and high tensile steels. I over engineer the thickness to make up for the strength of higher grades. Most of what I use is whatever I can dig up, typically hot rolled steel.
When I stretched the frame 2.5", I square cut the rail and added a section of 1/4" to the 3/16 frame rails. Then added a 3/16" diamond shaped plate to the outside face. The diagonal welds help to spread out the load on the parent metal.

I used mostly 1/8" plate to tie the subframe in and there is some thicker plate in critical areas.
I used 7018 stick rod on the frame reinforcement plate, but everything else was done with a 110v MIG machine with .030 Flux Core.
This is the most elaborate stuctural fabrication I done.


I think anyone wanting to learn how to weld, should start with Oxy/Act gas welding. It's slower welding, but it gives you a chance to learn how to work the flame and puddle. TIG welding is very similar to Gas welding, using a torch and filler wire.

 

The link below is Ford's site for aftermarket bodybuilders. Ford supplies these folks with the info on their vehicles and how to modify them and stay within design peramiters.
There is a ton+ of information. If it opens your good to go nose around and look at all the goodies.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...9/maintoc.html

 

Interesting thread. Dave, I plan on making my own frame for my IH KB2 project using my '95 Jeep ZJ driveline, after the 48 F1 and Tbird (maybe the Fairlane, too?), and what we get at work is a 1018 CF CD flatbar, and standard structural rectangle tube (ASTM A36 or A500 STR). Also DOM 1/4" wall tube if I decide to build a roll cage.

I ended up making my own sliding tube for my shop crane when I bent the original trying to pull the flattie out of the frozen ground. It was an oddball size, so I got a 1/4" walled tube, and milled off each side to make it 3/16" thick, and now it works great....don't think it will bend ever again.

 

</pyeh, 1/4 inch is a bit on the heavy side but i always go a bit thicker in case i decide to go with a massive powertrain in the future, i`m an overkill darksider!, i thought i read on a site that (can`t remember the company) all their frames they build ford and chevy aftermarket frames are all made of 1/4 inch steel???

 

Please be more specific ???

aftermarket for what???

Boxed or open channel???

Your statement is too vague and generalized to make a point. Pleas elaborate.

Later Man...

 

wow!, half my post didn`t show up!! guess i`ll have to re-do it! sorry! 1/4 inch seems a bit on the heavy side but i always like to overkill something like that, its not like you can re-do it later! i might be mistaken but i thought aftermarket frame companies like art morrison ect which build aftermarket (ford, chevy) frames used 1/4 inch boxed tubing? i know when i was building my frame i checked several frame companies and i thought it was posted on their site 1/4 inch boxed tubing? i might be wrong?? 3/16 was the thickness of my crown vic frame, they use these cars in severe duty so i guess it would be strong enough??

 

Hi Scott,
I don't know for sure but I still think 1/4" wall thickmess is too heavy for box tube frame rails. Like I said above, the frame for my enclosed trailer is about 28' overall length and they didn't use it for that. It has 6,000 # load capacity andweighs about 5,000# empty. I have pushed it beyond it's limit with no problem. I have used a bunch of the 2" X 3" for frames on smaller trailers and for trailer bases for big Lincoln and Miller welding machines with a lot of success and no problems. they drag them around on oild field jobs and pipelines all the time.

If you have two frame rails approx. 15' in length with 1/4' wall thickmess they are going to a lot of weight. Especially if the are 2' X 6" or even worse at 3" X 6'.

I'm going to have to look around and see if I can find a structural engineering handbook. I need to find something recent enough to cover the box tube. Maybe someone here knows a link on the internet with the structural rating specs for this stuff.

I think what a lot of guys are doing is going way over on the thickness so they don't have to worry about the ratings. I just can't justify dragging around useless weight.

I have a big plastic covered desktop chart from my steel supplier that has a lot of specs on it for various shapes and typse of steel but for some unknown reason it doesn't cover box tube. I plan on going over in a few days to get some angle and I will see if they have anything on the box tube.

I am chuckleing at the thought and mental picture of you sucking up an old flattie out of the froxen ground. What surprised me is that your hydraulic jack on the hoist was strong enough to bend the boom. Most of them I have seen tend to over-limit before that.

I look forward to a more in-depth dicussion on this issue.

Later Man...