Hey guys what make the 350 better than the 351w? I have always noticed that the 350 makes roughly 25-50 more hp than the 351w when you can buy assembled engines. Is it block design? How does a 351w of equal upgrades compare? If it doesnt then why not. I know it is technical but I just wanted to get some opinions.

 

Oh and I noticed that the quenched type heads are making there mark at the engine masters turnament. The top six engines were 3 chevys and 3 fords. But the fords were cleveland designs, two 400's and a 351 I think. I know they are totally different engines. Just thought the head configuration had something to do with it. Maybe the 350's head to block design is better than the windsors.

 

The 350 Chev is not any better than the 351W ford. you can get very good power out of both. stock 351W heads suck, and you really need aftermarket aluminum heads to make good power IMO. Most stock chev heads suck too, but they do have a few good ones. Can't really say which one is designed better, but the ford is designed with larger main bearings and a heavier block.

As to the engine masters thing, The 400 that won did indeed use aftermarket aluminum heads which breathe very well,

 

what year were these? the chevys pretty much across the board have larger valves and after the vortec in 96t the L31 heads retrofitted make gobs of power from not the largest valve size - proving that bowl shape and transition make a lot of difference.

there were some 160hp chevy 350s used in trucks and base model B cars that used smal 1.72/1.3 valves - they were made to hit peak T around 2000 rpm.

ford came up with some good heads for the street in the shape of gt40Ps but they also had smaller valves than they could have for a 4" bore motor

inches being everything, you could expect a 351 and 350 to be capable of similar power should you come up with better heads and larger valves for the 351

I know a guy out in livermore cali with a 358 inch 351 who runs in excess of 750hp from a holley 390carb (class rules)

 

They're both pumps, nothing more, nothing less.

Like Quad said, GM usually has better inline valve heads than Ford. Before the Vortec heads in the mid 90's, the HP rating wasn't that different in the truck motors.

One big difference though, as far as durability in a higher revving motor goes, is that the larger mains in the Ford Windsors cause more friction and higher oil temps.

You'll notice that current W based race/sportsman blocks will use the smaller Cleveland sized mains.


Tim

 

The 350 was made far longer than the 351 so there has been more development time. Also, aftermarket parts are far more available and much cheaper because of this. That is why the 350 is found in most hot rods regardless of the make.

 

I don't know about R&D or all that, but the 350 pretty much owns everything in aftermarket so I'll have to go with the 350.

Mike

 

While true a while back, the 351W currently has just as much aftermarket as the 350 Chevy.

When building these $50,000+ hotrods, a few hundred bucks either way is not gonna make a difference when it comes to motor choice.

It's brand bias to a lot of builders. Kinda like this place


Tim

 

It does? grab your jegs or summit racing catalogs. there are easy 10:1 SBC over SBF parts and 20: BBC over BBF parts. and they chevy stuff is cheaper. my 347 has $5G into it (good parts of course and machine work) same caliber for a 383 chevy (a similar project) and Id only be into it 3500ish

 

The one hot rod builder I met here in Buffalo says he puts 350's in everything for two reasons. 1 the parts are cheap but more importantly there are more available. 2 if he puts a smallblock ford in these 20's fords the firewalll needs to be cut and pushed back. I dont know how much of that is true though. I hate when people put chevies into fords but I understand why they USED to do it. I think the aftermarket is pretty good for fords now. I loved the small block chevy's I had. He tried selling me a 61 unibody with a 455 olds in it. No way. But he had a 65 f-100 with a 293 in it I wanted. He was kinda a jerk he gave me an attitude when I said I wouldnt put anything but a ford in a ford. Its just my taste!

 

A quick glance on line shows pricing to be very similar.

As an example:

afr - JEGS High Performance

And machine work should be no price difference.

Stroker kit from flea bay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BUDGE...Q5fAccessories

383 Chevy kits were similiar with some being lower, some higher.


Tim

 

consider this if you will, I can get from GM, with a warranty, a NEW, not rebuilt 350 motor that makes 260hp/350T. If I had say, a 77-81 Camaro with a tired 350, I would be adding 100hp and 75ft and it would cost me <$1800 delivered to the local terminal (perhaps cheaper, I didnt check Jim Pace). How good a platform is this? its a NEW casting of the 3970010 block which is the gold standard for 350s. And this is a LEGAL engine for 85 and older. Ford has really nothing comparable from the factory, and what they do have is at least $1000 more expensive....

for the parts, pistons, rods, cranks, *IF* a ford counterpart exists - and thats a big if - the ford is more. $20 more on every part adds up quickly. plus you have far less selection. Its really no different than a guy with a cutlass realizing a 350 is about 1/2 the cost of a rocket 350 lb for lb

Go out and try to get a Dart block or world products motown blocks or heads for a ford - nonexistium. There just isnt a market for it. And to add insult to injury, most crank makers forge 'ford' cranks that have chevy journals so the smaller/lighter/stronger chevy rods can be used.

You will also find that the performance stuff is for the 302 block and stroking it to 331/347. ITs actually very hard to find stuff for the 351.

Machine work ya is machine work, but to get 347 cubes I had a lot of clearancing going on and balancing to 28oz took a lot of work. The machine work was about $2100 of the bill - bored with torque plate, honed, crank and cam centerlines/lifter bores bored/blueprinted, clearanced, crank filletted and accu-balanced to 7000rpm. might seem pricey, might seem a bargain, but my machinist built Jerry Alberts current Top Sportsman world record holder (Tom Hemphill) so its likely quality

If this was a chevy 302 Id just add a crank to get 350 or 383 inches cuz it all came from the same essential block. and I would not have oil control problems

 

Quaddriver you dont know what your talking about!! Kidding!

 

It sucks I wish ford woud have done what chevy did and make the 302 and 351 blocks the same. Kinda like the 351m and 400. But from what I here there are crank differences with those blocks so you cant just swap cranks to make the 351m a 400. Your right though I always look at ford complete engine prices and they are about 1000 more. But I would still buy one over a chevy, unless I was building a chevy car/truck.

 

will, you CAN add the 302 crank to the 351 block and have essentially a tall deck 302 - but you'd be adding about 50lbs of weight for no apparent reason.

ford needed a really compact v8 and that 8.2" deck height kills ya. there are custom casters that will make a block with the deck height you desire - if you went 9" like chevy then you can get a motor no larger in size but able to make the same exotic combinations.