2005 Plug NIGHTMARE!!
Senior User
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 208
Likes: 7
I wonder if extended warranty's cover this if a simple plug change goes wrong?
Or just pay them to replace the plugs and if something goes wrong then they can fix it under the factory warranty. I have 49,952 miles right now.
Or just pay them to replace the plugs and if something goes wrong then they can fix it under the factory warranty. I have 49,952 miles right now.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,637
Likes: 37
From: Lost in Pa.
Well, after reading several posts from here, and reviewing the RSB on how to change plugs on my 2005 Expedition, I decided to give it a try.
2005 Expedition 5.4L 3 valve, 72k miles
Well, I got the first one out without much issue. Definately harder than a typical change, but adding the penetraiting oil was a big help.
Second one started well, and was acting like the first. Upon removal, it was only the top of the plug. the shield and the ceramic were still in the head. I put the thing back together and took it to the dealership.
They informed me they have to remove the body, or the engine to get them out.
$1,500 is the estimate!!!!
BULLS#*@!!!
Any thoughts?
Eric.
2005 Expedition 5.4L 3 valve, 72k miles
Well, I got the first one out without much issue. Definately harder than a typical change, but adding the penetraiting oil was a big help.
Second one started well, and was acting like the first. Upon removal, it was only the top of the plug. the shield and the ceramic were still in the head. I put the thing back together and took it to the dealership.
They informed me they have to remove the body, or the engine to get them out.
$1,500 is the estimate!!!!
BULLS#*@!!!
Any thoughts?
Eric.
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 590
Likes: 0
From: shelocta, pa
my fiend had a plug blow in his f150 shortly after he changed them. He warned me if i do my plugs to have the motor stone cold. then he rephrased it to say his plugs looked good and don't bother.
Thread Starter
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Freshman User
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 31
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cbradford, no, the engine was quite warm. I followed the Ford TSB regarding the plug change. Hot engine, blow out the plug wells, turn the plugs 1/8 to 1/4 turn, put penetrating oil in the wells, wait 10-15 minutes, then slowly turn out, if snag, tighten slightly and retry.
Also, the dealer broke the rest of them, so a total of 7 of the 8 broke. Very poor design, and Ford should have notified us, or atleast done a silent recall on the issue. The truck was in the dealer for service multiple times (oil changes were done there since new), and changing the plugs at the time of the TSB would have eliminated the need to pull the body.
Eric.
Also, the dealer broke the rest of them, so a total of 7 of the 8 broke. Very poor design, and Ford should have notified us, or atleast done a silent recall on the issue. The truck was in the dealer for service multiple times (oil changes were done there since new), and changing the plugs at the time of the TSB would have eliminated the need to pull the body.
Eric.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,637
Likes: 37
From: Lost in Pa.
With the aluminum heads these mod motors have it's best if the engine is cold when changing plugs, and that has been posted here before. I had changed the plugs on my now sold 97 expy twice and never had a problem with broken or blown plug it had 192K when I traded it in on the Excursion.
Freshman User
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
That would be the mistake. Always change spark plugs on an aluminum head when the engine is cold. Reason is the spark plugs are dissimilar metal (eg:copper/steel) compared to the aluminum head. The aluminum dissipates heat very quickly and the pulgs do not and stay hot. What happens to hot metal - it expands. So we have hot plugs in relatively "cool" heads. They are literally "wedged" in the head and are highly prone to coming out with the aluminum threads on the plugs. Or worse yet - what happened here. I was lucky enough to have been taught this or the same fate could have happend when I did the same thing!
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,899
Likes: 29
From: Raleigh USA
Dude I hate to say this, but you got ripped a new one! I have never had to remove the body to do plugs. I wish I can slap the tech in the face that ripped you off. Any competent Ford tech knows how to remove the plugs without breaking all of them. One or two may break but that's it. All you need is a can of Motorcraft carb cleaner and the Lisle tool in my signature. They shouldn't have charged you more than 3 hrs labor plus a little extra for any broken plugs.
Elder User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 637
Likes: 4
From: Media, PA
That does seem bizarre!
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Super Moderator
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 40,035
Likes: 1,523
From: Maine, Virginia
These engines have a 100k mile plug change interval. Some last that long and some don't. I changed the plugs in my Taurus at 99k and she still ran the same then as she does with the new plugs and wires.
My question is, if it's not running poorly or symptomatic in any way, then why are you changing / breaking plugs 28k miles before they are scheduled to be done?
I get it, loosen them up, apply some anti seize compound so at 100k they will be easier to remove. Or just prematurely throw perfectly good $6.00 a piece plugs in the trash and then apply anti seize compound on the new ones.
It would have been cheaper to take it to your favorite mechanic or the stealership between 90k - 100k and just have it done.
Your pissed at Ford for tranny problems in your Taurus, I get that, now your even more pissed becaue of a crappy plug design.
I'm a do it yourselfer like many others on here, but I'm not touching these plugs with a 10 ft pole. If the tech at the dealer broke it off, you might have had a fight.
Tim
My question is, if it's not running poorly or symptomatic in any way, then why are you changing / breaking plugs 28k miles before they are scheduled to be done?
I get it, loosen them up, apply some anti seize compound so at 100k they will be easier to remove. Or just prematurely throw perfectly good $6.00 a piece plugs in the trash and then apply anti seize compound on the new ones.
It would have been cheaper to take it to your favorite mechanic or the stealership between 90k - 100k and just have it done.
Your pissed at Ford for tranny problems in your Taurus, I get that, now your even more pissed becaue of a crappy plug design.
I'm a do it yourselfer like many others on here, but I'm not touching these plugs with a 10 ft pole. If the tech at the dealer broke it off, you might have had a fight.
Tim
Thread Starter
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Freshman User
Joined: Jan 2009
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70F100, where can you get the Lisle tool? I agree, I think I got taken. What I don't understand is why the Ford TSB says to perform the plug change with the engine hot. In Bold, no less.
Tseekins, I was performing the plug change early due to the known issue. I thought by taking them out now, I might save the hassle, but I was too late. By the way, the plugs are $12 each from AutoZone, and I don't even know what they cost me at the dealer. For what it's worth, at 73k, the plugs looked pretty bad, most of the electrode was gone, and the gap was considerably wider than tolerance. Further, there is no way to change the gap on these plugs due to there design.
I too am a do it yourselfer, and perform 80% of the maintenance myself, including plug changes, O2 sensors, brakes, oil changes, etc. In fact I am changing the serp belt on my Taurus today.
My thought still stands, this design is horrible, and why Ford didn't take action in March 2006 when the TSB was initialy written is beyond me. They should have notified us, or at least had the dealer offer the change far sooner. Had they done this it would have saved me about $1200.
Eric.
Tseekins, I was performing the plug change early due to the known issue. I thought by taking them out now, I might save the hassle, but I was too late. By the way, the plugs are $12 each from AutoZone, and I don't even know what they cost me at the dealer. For what it's worth, at 73k, the plugs looked pretty bad, most of the electrode was gone, and the gap was considerably wider than tolerance. Further, there is no way to change the gap on these plugs due to there design.
I too am a do it yourselfer, and perform 80% of the maintenance myself, including plug changes, O2 sensors, brakes, oil changes, etc. In fact I am changing the serp belt on my Taurus today.
My thought still stands, this design is horrible, and why Ford didn't take action in March 2006 when the TSB was initialy written is beyond me. They should have notified us, or at least had the dealer offer the change far sooner. Had they done this it would have saved me about $1200.
Eric.
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
From: beaufort
The shop I run has done several of these engines. We have never lifted the cab for any of them. The problem with those plugs is they are a 2 piece design and they carbon up on the end they now make a new plug that is 1 piece. What we do is run a good top engine cleaner thru the engine then pull all the coils fill holes partway with carb cleaner cold engine turn plug about a third of turn out then back in several times be patient.Then slowly remove them usually they will come out without breaking them. I will say there have been some of them in the 5-600.00 dollar range for removing the broken parts. chuck
Fleet Owner
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,637
Likes: 37
From: Lost in Pa.
Super Moderator
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 40,035
Likes: 1,523
From: Maine, Virginia
70F100, where can you get the Lisle tool? I agree, I think I got taken. What I don't understand is why the Ford TSB says to perform the plug change with the engine hot. In Bold, no less.
Tseekins, I was performing the plug change early due to the known issue. I thought by taking them out now, I might save the hassle, but I was too late. By the way, the plugs are $12 each from AutoZone, and I don't even know what they cost me at the dealer. For what it's worth, at 73k, the plugs looked pretty bad, most of the electrode was gone, and the gap was considerably wider than tolerance. Further, there is no way to change the gap on these plugs due to there design.
I too am a do it yourselfer, and perform 80% of the maintenance myself, including plug changes, O2 sensors, brakes, oil changes, etc. In fact I am changing the serp belt on my Taurus today.
My thought still stands, this design is horrible, and why Ford didn't take action in March 2006 when the TSB was initialy written is beyond me. They should have notified us, or at least had the dealer offer the change far sooner. Had they done this it would have saved me about $1200.
Eric.
Tseekins, I was performing the plug change early due to the known issue. I thought by taking them out now, I might save the hassle, but I was too late. By the way, the plugs are $12 each from AutoZone, and I don't even know what they cost me at the dealer. For what it's worth, at 73k, the plugs looked pretty bad, most of the electrode was gone, and the gap was considerably wider than tolerance. Further, there is no way to change the gap on these plugs due to there design.
I too am a do it yourselfer, and perform 80% of the maintenance myself, including plug changes, O2 sensors, brakes, oil changes, etc. In fact I am changing the serp belt on my Taurus today.
My thought still stands, this design is horrible, and why Ford didn't take action in March 2006 when the TSB was initialy written is beyond me. They should have notified us, or at least had the dealer offer the change far sooner. Had they done this it would have saved me about $1200.
Eric.
Tim
Thread Starter
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Freshman User
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 31
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No offence taken Tim. I agree with your thoughts.
Thank you for the link cbradford. this does not look like the cab would need to be removed to use it. I did file a complaint with Ford, and the initial response is that the vehicle is out of warranty. I will continue to pursue, although I have little faith they will do anything.
Some good new though, from reading the sight, I learned that I could clean and maintenance the rear wiper pivot. I did this today. It took less than 30 minutes to remove dissassemble, clean, lube and reassemble. It works like brand new. And the dealer said I needed a new one and it would cost me about $200 to replace it.
I need a new dealer.
Thank you guy's, this site is great.
Eric.
Thank you for the link cbradford. this does not look like the cab would need to be removed to use it. I did file a complaint with Ford, and the initial response is that the vehicle is out of warranty. I will continue to pursue, although I have little faith they will do anything.
Some good new though, from reading the sight, I learned that I could clean and maintenance the rear wiper pivot. I did this today. It took less than 30 minutes to remove dissassemble, clean, lube and reassemble. It works like brand new. And the dealer said I needed a new one and it would cost me about $200 to replace it.
I need a new dealer.
Thank you guy's, this site is great.
Eric.