Machine Shop took 0.010 off my 428 block decks due to some pitting. Havn't got it back yet, so not sure what the deck clearance will be until I get the crank and at least one piston/connecting rod back in.

Was looking at some old 60's deck clearance info and it's not much. I am worried. Don't want pistons hitting cylinder head. Anybody ever go through this before?

 

Arg, I wouldn't worry yet. There should be enough room. What part number pistons are you going to use ? If we add up the pin height from your pistons to the rods ( 6.488 ) and the throw ( 1.99 ) we will know your assembled height. If your block was standard before, you'll now be at 10.160.
Be certain that you don't let anyone tell you to cut the intake manifold. If someone suggests doing so, thats a clear indication that they don't know what they're doing. There IS something you may want to cut however....do you want to know ? DinosaurFan

 

Yes, I want to know what that is and I'd like to guess "the heads".

On the intake manifold cutting... never cut the intake manifold?
Like... never, ever and stuff ... or something? ;)

Alvin in AZ

 

I think Christ's book states once .020 is taken off the blocks deck requires cutting the intake. Page 75

 

Alvin, you are correct. You might need to cut the intake side of the cylinderheads. If Christ's book tells you to cut the intake, it is WRONG. It is a decent book, I even have a copy, but it ain't gospel. There are mistakes. The notion of cutting an intake is one of them. That just plain isn't the best way to do things......DinosaurFan

 

So what's wrong with cutting the intake manifold?
Why is it any different than cutting the intake manifold?

If I had some loose FE parts to fiddle with I'd see if I couldn't see the "angles" myself
and have a decent guess. As it is, looking at my 360FE all I "see" is my intake manifold
is weeping quite a bit of oil. LOL :)

Alvin in AZ
ps- BTW, around me, you're not allowed to use the W word without a reason why. ;)
pps- Also, I read page 75.

 

Strange you guys say never cut the intake. Since Fords says to, if you cut the heads past a certain number because if you don't the intake won't fit properly. They even give numbers. But then Ford knows nothing about FEs.

 

Yeah, I don't see where Steve Christ mentions cutting the heads.
But the numbers you're referring to are on page 102.

{Oops!}
The stupid ugly Gringo in AZ wrote:
>So what's wrong with cutting the intake manifold?
>Why is it any different than cutting the XintXakeXmaniXfoldX {heads}?

Alvin in AZ

 

Alvin, the reason you shouldn't cut the intake is because it is the wrong thing to do. Just because we can find obsolete literature that says thats the right thing to do is irrelevant. I'm sure I can find old first aid manuals that tell to spread butter or grease on yourself if you have a burn. But most medical types aren't likely to make leaches their first treatment of choice for every possible condition. There are some old guys out there who learned it wrong many decades ago, and they just can't get past it. It never ceases to amaze me how long mistakes and bad information persists.
If you have milled the heads or the decks a lot, the best way to fix things is to mill the intake side of the cylinderheads. That way any unmolested intake will fit. If you mill the intake to fit, you lose out on interchangeability. If the heads are milled on the sides, a new BT or Victor will fit flawlessly. Why would you create future problems for yourself if you could easily avoid them ? Add to that the fact that most guys are not able to do the setup to mill an intake correctly, and the problems get compounded. There is just plain no reason to make this hard on yourself. What is to be gained by doing it the wrong way ? DinosaurFan

 

In a perfect world maybe.....

I cut intakes ALL THE TIME.

Most of the BT parts are very good - although I have caught a couple here and there that needed tuning up. Many of the Edelbrocks are way off. Maybe if you are working with some unobtanium rare factory intake you want to keep it virgin - other than that it's a choice between whacking on a very expensive set of heads or a comparatively cheap intake.

I check every one of them, and my priorites are port alignment, and then gasket seal.

As to the original question - you should be just fine. I've run these at +/-6800RPM with piston to head clearances of .036 and had the slightest trace of contact - just no carbon...

 

For a street application .010 is not going to cause a problem, unless they have been milled before. If you need to in the future, mill the intake. For the average guy, your FE engine is going to last you for as long as you own your vehicle, if you build it right the first time.

 

Brother Barry, you have sinned and must repent ! "all the time " I think too many guys are way to quick to want to mill the intake. I cringe when I see it suggested. There were two other shops in my town that used to mill alot of intakes, 'cause they seemed to think they were supposed too, or they just liked charging for the 'service'. I am saddened when I remember how much neat stuff those guys made unusable because they didn't know what they were doing. We fixed lots of it. Welded and remachined what we could. Some of their customers just bought lots of new stuff. We rebuilt a couple of sideoilers after the 'otherguys' had done the same engines twice because they had no oil to the heads. As I suspected, the cam bearings were wrong. The guy at the other shop had put regular cam bearings in a pair of hydralic lifter side oilers, and couldn't understand why the oil wasn't getting through. We had heard of the trouble he was having an suggested that he look at the cam bearings......he said he knew they were in correctly. We tried to explain that not all FEs take the same part numbers here and he didn't believe us. After he f***** them up twice, the customer brought them to us and there was no trouble.
If manifolds are cut correctly you can certainly make things fit that way. But it just doesn't leave me with a warm fuzzy feeling. If the customer wants to swap intakes later and he has to cut his brand new whatever......he usually isn't happy. If we cut his old factory whatever he might be really pissed. Yes some of the heads are lots more exspensive, but if you already milled them .050 on the decks, the cherry has been popped. If their viginity is now gone, a .050 cut on their face leaves the intake alone, preserves easy interchagneability down the road.
And I would guess most of our guys here @ FTE are using factory iron heads and maybe a new aluminum intake. I will agree the Edels are probably warped out of the box. Thats why we recommend the BTs for almost everything.
Add to that the fact that for every ten guys that think they know how to cut an intake, only one of them can really do it right. I think you are one of the 'ones', and we need to remember that most of the guys out there just can't do this correctly without help. But milling the face of the cylinderheads is easy.
And I would agree that our original poster will probably be fine without any effort at all. I'm guessing that his engine came with shim gaskets and that his composition replacements are thick enough to make up for it.
Now as to all of this 'all the time' stuff you have been doing.....give yourself fifty lashes with a wet noodle as penance, and then go forth and sin no more. Shalom
And if you have any enginemaster intakes that you are thinking of milling, send them to me and I will make sure they never bother you again.......

 

Thanks guys. Seems that 0.035" is a recommended minimum piston/head clearance figure. Steve C's book lists deck clearance as low as.....hmmm......was it 0.0005"? Darn little anyway. Basically, all that keeps things from hitting is the head gasket, and I guess about a 0.020" thickness for it. So you can see why I was worried about the 0.010" milling.

By the way, I am using flat-top pistons, with valve-reliefs, custom machined for a 9.5:1 CR based on a 70cc head. Think my heads cc'd about 72, although it's been a while since I made that measurement. Being less than the older high CRs, I am hoping to be OK.

Once I get it back and get some of the assembly done, I hope to find 0.015" minimum between the piston top and deck. If not.....well, so much Machine Shop $$$ down the drain ...

 

Arg, do you have a part number on those pistons ? Then we could do some quick math and know right where you'll be..........My guess is you are going to be okay. Steve's book is nice, but there are plenty of typos. Add to that the fact that most rebuilder pistons are shorter than factory, and that your engine came with shim steel head gaskets ( .017 ? ) and most guys use the FelPro composition replacment, or something similar, at .035~.041 thick, you should be fine. Barry has buzzed his stuff to 6800 with .035 clearnce and was okay. How high are you going to wind this ? The lower your rpms, the less chance of kissing the head. DinosaurFan

 

So why is intake manifold interchangeability more important than head
interchangeability?

Do intakes need reworking/rebuilding/replaced more often than heads? ;)

Why would I, in my (very?) peculiar situation* want to mill my heads instead of
the intake manifold?

*just want an engine for my pickup or car

If I needed new heads I'd have to mill those, where as the intake manifold
matches the block as a set. {shrug}

I'm missing the explanation as to why it is so "wrong". :/
Why is Ford "wrong"? (running Steve Christ down isn't an explanation)

Really? :)
Only one in ten? :/
Do you find that to be true "all of the time"? ;)

See? Anybody can argue stupid crap, even dumb ol' Alvin. :/

Make your case for "wrong".

Alvin in AZ
ps- BTW, everything you say over the internet is etched in (magnetite) stone. ;)