Not staying in 4X4
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Tuned
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 354
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Not staying in 4X4
Now that Missouri has 3" ice/sleet on the ground, I just found out my 4WD is not staying engaged. I can turn the switch on the panel to 4H and the cluster 4X4 light will come on and the truck will kick in to 4x4. After a short distance the light will still be on but no 4X4. I turned the hubs to lock, same issue, no 4WD. I can turn the switch off then on again and I may or may not have 4WD. And, one of my hubs is staying locked in and I have to smack it with a hammer or remove it to get it to unlock, even if it's switched to auto-lock.
Any suggestions?
Any suggestions?
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: VA
I just fixed my ESOF 2 days ago...missing a few things. Anyways...I would start with servicing your autolock hubs. I followed Guzzles advice found on http://guzzle.rbmicro.com/maint.html
If you turn the dials to lock and reach behind and try to move the U joints and you cannot, then they are locked. If you still do not get 4x4 then, it sounds like a tranfer case issue to me.
The ESOF system fails in a few ways...
vacuum leaks (vents default to defrost...thats a giveaway)
failed knuckle seal
missing or failed o-ring on hub
bad "vacuum solenoid"
Those are most common that Ive seen. My problem was actually a combination of 3 things. NO o-ring at all, failed knuckle seal, and the thrust washer against the knuckle seal was installed the wrong way.
If you turn the dials to lock and reach behind and try to move the U joints and you cannot, then they are locked. If you still do not get 4x4 then, it sounds like a tranfer case issue to me.
The ESOF system fails in a few ways...
vacuum leaks (vents default to defrost...thats a giveaway)
failed knuckle seal
missing or failed o-ring on hub
bad "vacuum solenoid"
Those are most common that Ive seen. My problem was actually a combination of 3 things. NO o-ring at all, failed knuckle seal, and the thrust washer against the knuckle seal was installed the wrong way.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Feb 2006
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Replaced the Vacuum lines to the hub this evening.. and used small hose clamps to insure a good seal. Getting intermittant 4WD and when in 4WD the vent will sometimes change to defrost and other times it will not. But, when I turn the switch to 2WD, the vent slowly changes to defrost then within approximately 30-60 seconds it goes back to the original vent setting. Going to call NAPA to check on the seals in the morning... I've already replaced all the seals on the passenger side when I replaced the ball joints.. Now for the driver's side...
How do you diagnose a bad solenoid?
How do you diagnose a bad solenoid?
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: VA
Heres the easiest way I found to check everything....
I had some spare tubing laying around...bout 10 feet. I took the line off one sides hub and then put on end of the spare tubing on that hub. I then unhooked the line where it connects to the solenoid and plugged in the line thats goin directly to the hub. Turned key on but didnt start. Let the vacuum pump do its work and then switch to 4x4hi and give it a second and then reach behind the wheel and try to spin the u joint. If it spins its not locked and something is going on with that hub(knuckle seal, o-ring, thrust washer or problem with autolock hub itself). Of course this is assuming the spare tubing is leak free. Since youve already narrowed it down to the drivers side....you should be done in a few minutes.
If that locks it into 4x4 on that hub you might have to replace the entire vacuum line.
I had some spare tubing laying around...bout 10 feet. I took the line off one sides hub and then put on end of the spare tubing on that hub. I then unhooked the line where it connects to the solenoid and plugged in the line thats goin directly to the hub. Turned key on but didnt start. Let the vacuum pump do its work and then switch to 4x4hi and give it a second and then reach behind the wheel and try to spin the u joint. If it spins its not locked and something is going on with that hub(knuckle seal, o-ring, thrust washer or problem with autolock hub itself). Of course this is assuming the spare tubing is leak free. Since youve already narrowed it down to the drivers side....you should be done in a few minutes.
If that locks it into 4x4 on that hub you might have to replace the entire vacuum line.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Feb 2006
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Thanks for the info Triskit16... I have the NAPA part #'s for all the seals but the large yellow o-ring and the hub seal, do you know the #'s and cost?
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Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: VA
Ha...yea...Ford only....
Ill post the part #s in an edit in a second....
www.FTEpartsguy.com is where I got mine
The large knuckle/axle seal is F81Z-3254-CB bout 33 bucks (better than 45 from dealer)
and the yellow o-ring is F81Z-4A322-AA bout 4 bucks
Shipping should be around 9.50 and hes pretty quick!
If thats all you are ordering from him and sales tax isnt bad in your state I might just order from dealer...5.00 or so savings by ordering online
Ill post the part #s in an edit in a second....
www.FTEpartsguy.com is where I got mine
The large knuckle/axle seal is F81Z-3254-CB bout 33 bucks (better than 45 from dealer)
and the yellow o-ring is F81Z-4A322-AA bout 4 bucks
Shipping should be around 9.50 and hes pretty quick!
If thats all you are ordering from him and sales tax isnt bad in your state I might just order from dealer...5.00 or so savings by ordering online
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Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Feb 2006
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Just replaced the hub-lock o-rings and pulled 25 in Hg, for 5 min, thru the vacuum lines by unplugging the solenoid line and attaching a hand operated vacuum pump. The hubs are now locking in but, they aren't unlocking. When I switched from 4WD to 2WD, the vent changed to defrost for 4-6 sec then returned to the selected setting. I drove the truck about 100 yds (after returning to 2WD), backed into drive, then checked the hubs. They are still locked in... Had to turn them to manual lock then back to auto while trying to turn the u-joint
to get them unlocked..
My question; #1. What is causing loss of vacuum when 4WD selector is switched to 2WD? #2 How far must I drive to unlock the hubs and/or why are they not unlocking?
to get them unlocked..
My question; #1. What is causing loss of vacuum when 4WD selector is switched to 2WD? #2 How far must I drive to unlock the hubs and/or why are they not unlocking?
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: VA
Wow...
Have you serviced the hubs per guzzles instructions yet? I would do that first and see whats going on. It doesnt make sense to me that its holding vacuum goin into 4x4 and not when unlocking. The defrost thing tells me a vacuum leak but it doesnt make sense when it held for 5 mins. Maybe its from the solenoid back...check your pump lines and all other lines there. Mine take about 50-100 feet to unlock now. Im just glad they lock so Im not all to worried on the unlocking process!
Have you serviced the hubs per guzzles instructions yet? I would do that first and see whats going on. It doesnt make sense to me that its holding vacuum goin into 4x4 and not when unlocking. The defrost thing tells me a vacuum leak but it doesnt make sense when it held for 5 mins. Maybe its from the solenoid back...check your pump lines and all other lines there. Mine take about 50-100 feet to unlock now. Im just glad they lock so Im not all to worried on the unlocking process!
Of the next Riffraff East
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,679
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From: Concord NC
Your vacuum leak could be somewhere else. The defroster defaulting is a sure sign of a leak. Could be a leak in the canister or soleniod or even a bad or weak pump. All that is the reason I now ride with Warn Premiums and a plugged off vacuum system.
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Tuned
Joined: Feb 2006
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To answer your question Triskit16, no I haven't conducted the full service. The weather here has that on hold. I thought about doing the quick and easy things first. (maybe get lucky)
I'm baffled why I can get great vacuum on the hand pump and get solid lock-up vacuum but loose it during unlock. The pump is working fine and the canister has no leaks.. at least none I can locate. Now I'm thinking Solenoid..
Is there a test for the solenoid? What is the cost of replacement? Is it a dealer item or O'Reilly?
I'm baffled why I can get great vacuum on the hand pump and get solid lock-up vacuum but loose it during unlock. The pump is working fine and the canister has no leaks.. at least none I can locate. Now I'm thinking Solenoid..
Is there a test for the solenoid? What is the cost of replacement? Is it a dealer item or O'Reilly?
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: VA
I think its like 60 or so from FTEpartsguy.com I priced it out from him when I ordered my seals and o-rings. Im puzzled...from what Ive read about that solenoid it either works or doesnt and yours seems to be working to lock them...
Servicing those bad boys might take you a lil longer on the 1st one maybe 20 minutes. But the 2nd will be a breeze. Just take the snap ring off and pull it out and take it somewhere warm to service them! Need some bearing grease and some good white grease.
Servicing those bad boys might take you a lil longer on the 1st one maybe 20 minutes. But the 2nd will be a breeze. Just take the snap ring off and pull it out and take it somewhere warm to service them! Need some bearing grease and some good white grease.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 354
Likes: 9
Hub service complete.. Still momentarily loosing vacuum upon switching from 4WD to 2WD and still no unlock.. doing it manually. (FYI-no vac loss when switching from 2WD to 4WD, hubs locking-in fine) Suggestions??????
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