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Straight 3"= Not enough Backpressure??

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Old Jan 20, 2009 | 12:00 PM
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Straight 3"= Not enough Backpressure??

I've talked to alot of people about this and am getting mixed answers and wanted to know what everyone else thought about running straight 3" single pipe for an exhaust on my truck. I heard that it would ruin valves, seals, etc. over the years and wanted to know opinions on this issue. I was told that with a straight 3" that it woulnd't have enough backpressure for the motor to run efficiently. They said that 2.5" should be the biggest pipe to run if I wanted to run straight pipe. Any thoughts? I had another forum that touched on this issue, but wanted to make one all about it. Any thoughts/ideas are welcome!!
 
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Old Jan 20, 2009 | 12:31 PM
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To begin with, it would be kinda helpful to know something about the engine if you want us to help you properly size your exhaust system.

I have heard lots of people over the years say things like "an engine has to have back pressure to run right." I say, that's bunch of HORSESH...... well you know what I mean.

What has LED people to believe such things is that they drastically opened up an exhaust at one point with no other changes. If you do that to an engine with proper mixture, the opened up exhaust will lean it out. Leaning it out is what causes burnt valves, holed pistons and all sorts of other awful maladies. It also leads to LESS power.

You can run a completely open exhaust system without causing parts failure AS LONG AS you dial in the mixture and ignition advance.

That said, unless you are building a great big, gosh awful engine, a 3 inch exhaust system, unless put through some really restrictive mufflers will pop and snap and sound awful, even with the carb and ignition dialed in.

Now, what size and how wild is the motor you are putting this exhaust system on?
 
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Old Jan 20, 2009 | 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by MBDiagMan
To begin with, it would be kinda helpful to know something about the engine if you want us to help you properly size your exhaust system.

I have heard lots of people over the years say things like "an engine has to have back pressure to run right." I say, that's bunch of HORSESH...... well you know what I mean.

What has LED people to believe such things is that they drastically opened up an exhaust at one point with no other changes. If you do that to an engine with proper mixture, the opened up exhaust will lean it out. Leaning it out is what causes burnt valves, holed pistons and all sorts of other awful maladies. It also leads to LESS power.

You can run a completely open exhaust system without causing parts failure AS LONG AS you dial in the mixture and ignition advance.

That said, unless you are building a great big, gosh awful engine, a 3 inch exhaust system, unless put through some really restrictive mufflers will pop and snap and sound awful, even with the carb and ignition dialed in.

Now, what size and how wild is the motor you are putting this exhaust system on?
As of right now, the motor is an all stock 351w. This summer this will have a Crane 444232 cam swaped in and some long tube headers. I only ask this question because I already have the 3'' on it from the O2 back. (Cut cat off and went with a 2.5 dual inlet to single 3'' out;et Y pipe) The pipe isn't exactly "straight" as it was bent to go over the axle and kicked out the side at a 90 degree angle behind the rear tire. I had no muffler and no cat on it for about 3 days and i absolutly loved how loud it was... bt thats before i put a Flowmaster super 44 muffler on it. Its too quiet now. I wanted to kick myself for putting that on... but if 3" piping's too bigfor a straight, then I'll cut the FM44 off and throw on a Cherrybomb glass pack, which should give the motor a lil more backpressure as to not mess anything up.
 
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Old Jan 20, 2009 | 03:08 PM
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I had the impression that you were talking about a dual exhaust with 3" system on both sides. What you describe is not too big.

Make sure you see that the engine does not run too lean and you will be okay.
 
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Old Jan 20, 2009 | 03:30 PM
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The headers will make all the back pressure that you need, but you will need to fatten up your fuel mixture
 
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Old Jan 20, 2009 | 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 1dieselman
The headers will make all the back pressure that you need, but you will need to fatten up your fuel mixture
Howw would one do this "fattening of one's fuel mixture" that you speak of? lol
 
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Old Jan 20, 2009 | 04:31 PM
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Do you run carburetor or EFI?
 
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Old Jan 20, 2009 | 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 1dieselman
Do you run carburetor or EFI?
EFI. Im assuming that this is going to have to do with something about the FPR?
 
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Old Jan 20, 2009 | 05:43 PM
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Correct, and with that cam, headers, etc to come you may need to go with a little bigger injectors. I would keep an eye on your spark plug color, light tan is perfect, white is to lean.
 
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Old Jan 20, 2009 | 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 1dieselman
Correct, and with that cam, headers, etc to come you may need to go with a little bigger injectors. I would keep an eye on your spark plug color, light tan is perfect, white is to lean.
Going with bigger injectors is going to mean bigger ported heads and the more complicated "not for me" kind of things. If I add like 24lb injectors, just with the headers and long tubes, that extra fuel with out the ported heads and other upgrades, will just be flyin out the tailpipe.
 
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Old Jan 20, 2009 | 06:42 PM
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With what your doing, No porting necessary I think you would find 24lb injectors to be perfect, may need to upgrade the ignition if you haven't already.
 
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Old Jan 20, 2009 | 08:28 PM
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Gents... EFI automatically adjusts to changes, no need to do anything with small upgrades like a cam and exhaust.
 
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Old Jan 21, 2009 | 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Conanski
Gents... EFI automatically adjusts to changes, no need to do anything with small upgrades like a cam and exhaust.
Thank you Conanski, thats exactly what I was thinking/hoping for anyways!!
 
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Old Jan 21, 2009 | 09:44 PM
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any amount of back pressure in your exhaust (gas or diesel) is nothing more than a parasitic draw of horsepower. i post this all over.......ENJOY!

Exhaust backpressure the myth
<hr style="color: rgb(209, 209, 225);" size="1"> Backpressure: The myth and why it's wrong.

I. Introduction
One of the most misunderstood concepts in exhaust theory is backpressure. People love to talk about backpressure on message boards with no real understanding of what it is and what it's consequences are. I'm sure many of you have heard or read the phrase "Engines need backpressure" when discussing exhaust upgrades. That phrase is in fact completely inaccurate and a wholly misguided notion.

II. Some basic exhaust theory
Your exhaust system is designed to evacuate gases from the combustion chamber quickly and efficently. Exhaust gases are not produced in a smooth stream; exhaust gases originate in pulses. A 4 cylinder motor will have 4 distinct pulses per complete engine cycle, a 6 cylinder has 6 pules and so on. The more pulses that are produced, the more continuous the exhaust flow. Backpressure can be loosely defined as the resistance to positive flow - in this case, the resistance to positive flow of the exhaust stream.

III. Backpressure and velocity
Some people operate under the misguided notion that wider pipes are more effective at clearing the combustion chamber than narrower pipes. It's not hard to see how this misconception is appealing - wider pipes have the capability to flow more than narrower pipes. So if they have the ability to flow more, why isn't "wider is better" a good rule of thumb for exhaust upgrading? In a word - VELOCITY. I'm sure that all of you have at one time used a garden hose w/o a spray nozzle on it. If you let the water just run unrestricted out of the house it flows at a rather slow rate. However, if you take your finger and cover part of the opening, the water will flow out at a much much faster rate.

The astute exhaust designer knows that you must balance flow capacity with velocity. You want the exhaust gases to exit the chamber and speed along at the highest velocity possible - you want a FAST exhaust stream. If you have two exhaust pulses of equal volume, one in a 2" pipe and one in a 3" pipe, the pulse in the 2" pipe will be traveling considerably FASTER than the pulse in the 3" pipe. While it is true that the narrower the pipe, the higher the velocity of the exiting gases, you want make sure the pipe is wide enough so that there is as little backpressure as possible while maintaining suitable exhaust gas velocity. Backpressure in it's most extreme form can lead to reversion of the exhaust stream - that is to say the exhaust flows backwards, which is not good. The trick is to have a pipe that that is as narrow as possible while having as close to zero backpressure as possible at the RPM range you want your power band to be located at. Exhaust pipe diameters are best suited to a particular RPM range. A smaller pipe diameter will produce higher exhaust velocities at a lower RPM but create unacceptably high amounts of backpressure at high rpm. Thus if your powerband is located 2-3000 RPM you'd want a narrower pipe than if your powerband is located at 8-9000RPM.

Many engineers try to work around the RPM specific nature of pipe diameters by using setups that are capable of creating a similar effect as a change in pipe diameter on the fly. The most advanced is Ferrari's which consists of two exhaust paths after the header - at low RPM only one path is open to maintain exhaust velocity, but as RPM climbs and exhaust volume increases, the second path is opened to curb backpressure - since there is greater exhaust volume there is no loss in flow velocity. BMW and Nissan use a simpler and less effective method - there is a single exhaust path to the muffler; the muffler has two paths; one path is closed at low RPM but both are open at high RPM.

IV. So how did this myth come to be?
I often wonder how the myth "Engines need backpressure" came to be. Mostly I believe it is a misunderstanding of what is going on with the exhaust stream as pipe diameters change. For instance, someone with a civic decides he's going to uprade his exhaust with a 3" diameter piping. Once it's installed the owner notices that he seems to have lost a good bit of power throughout the powerband. He makes the connections in the following manner: "My wider exhaust eliminated all backpressure but I lost power, therefore the motor must need some backpressure in order to make power." What he did not realize is that he killed off all his flow velocity by using such a ridiculously wide pipe. It would have been possible for him to achieve close to zero backpressure with a much narrower pipe - in that way he would not have lost all his flow velocity.

V. So why is exhaust velocity so important?
The faster an exhaust pulse moves, the better it can scavenge out all of the spent gasses during valve overlap. The guiding principles of exhaust pulse scavenging are a bit beyond the scope of this doc but the general idea is a fast moving pulse creates a low pressure area behind it. This low pressure area acts as a vacuum and draws along the air behind it. A similar example would be a vehicle traveling at a high rate of speed on a dusty road. There is a low pressure area immediately behind the moving vehicle - dust particles get sucked into this low pressure area causing it to collect on the back of the vehicle. This effect is most noticeable on vans and hatchbacks which tend to create large trailing low pressure areas - giving rise to the numerous "wash me please" messages written in the thickly collected dust on the rear door(s).
 
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