Anti gel additives
#1
01-18-2009, 10:26 AM
#2
01-18-2009, 11:48 AM
-15 in Cleveland
#3
01-18-2009, 11:56 AM
Diesel Fuel In General - Additive Recommendations!!!
My post below discusses the quality of diesel fuel and why additives (not all brands of them) are important... either for ant-gelling or basic lubricity purposes.
---------------------
I filled up last night at my local truck stop and was told that due to the extreme cold temps, their supplier was mixing 20% 1D with the 2D fuel, plus an additive to get to an acceptable winter-blend (so it doesn't gel up). As we all know, 1D does not lubricate as well and has less thermal energy... so I still added my Powerservice if nothing else... for the lubricity benefits!!!!
-------------------------------
Here is why I will NOT use Howes diesel fuel additives....
1) They promote that their product prevents gelling (which I agree it does)... but that is all.
2) They claim it adds power or better mileage, but the slick marketing is that they do NOT state they have cetane improves in the product rather that their product negates the need for using #1D fuel to prevent gelling which we all know using #1D fuel has lower engery content... so their claim is more power by not having to use #1D fuel.
Their marketing claims is just as shaddy as Amsoil's is on their oil products.
Their product does NOT contain cetane improves which is why it costs less. We all know that low cetane levels is what is hurting the performance of our trucks... so Powerservice is a better product than Howes as Powerservice contains cetane improves!!!
Here is the Howes link:
Howes Lubricator: Products
Look at the bottom of the page and read carefully.... especially the part in red!!! Not sure how an additive prolongs filter life? It either filters the fuel or it doesn't!! No where do they mention anything about adding lubricity agents... they just state that it protects at the top of the page, but not even as a "bullet point"... so it must not be a real benefit???
The best cold weather protection available — Howes can lower the Cold Filter Plugging Point by up to 20°F or more.
Increases fuel economy — reduced requirement for blended fuel, which has lower BTU content.
Prolongs fuel filter life. Howes reduces contaminants and safely controls water.
Non-solvent, non-alcohol formula is safe to use in all weather conditions.
Low cost per treated gallon — one gallon of Winter Treat Plus treats 3000 gallons of fuel.
Again, due to cost and availability and the fact that Powerservice contains cetane improvers and a lubricity agent... it's my choice hands down!!!
Hope this helps educate those that may be using Howes and not seeing the benefits some of us who use Powerservice are seeing!!!
----------------------------------
Here is a link about diesel fuel and what to look for. I have never heard of this product and to not endorse it, but the information on the link below is very good "basic" info.
Diesel Dosing
QUOTE FROM THE ABOVE LINK:Additives control water year-round. Emulsifiers suspend tiny droplets that pass through the fuel system. De-emulsifiers alter diesel so it won't hold water, so water drops to the bottom of the tank. Water should be removed regularly. Controlling water also helps control organic growth.
Why am I so passionate about this topic.....
A lot of diesel owners try and do the right thing by using additives, but don't realize the differences in them and end up causing damage to their motors... when they thought they were using a quality product.
Again, I do not care what brand people use... just do your research, read the bottles and call the companies... or read this thread.
As you all know, I use Powerservice products which is a "demulsifier" additive versus other brands (not sure which ones unless you read their lables or call the companies)... but you WANT to seperate the water from the fuel versus having the additive collect to it and allowing it to be burned. The big problem is this leads to injector wear and water will not compress when shot through the injector leading to injector damage!!! Powerservice and Stanadyne are demulsifiers (good additives) and Howes is an emulsifier (bad) fuel additive.
Howes = Bad (prevents gelling, but nothing more)
Powerservice = Good (Less expensive and readily available)
Stanadyne = Good (More expensive and not as readily available)
--------------------------------
For the most part, all the diesel motors basically need the same cetane rating to work and function properly and all diesel fuel is basically the same.
The more cetane, the more power. This is why using an additive that adds cetane (Powerservice or Stanadyne) is better than ones that do not (Howes and others). As well, Howes does not add lubrication to ones fuel, just allows for less #1D that has very little lubricity. The only benefit to Howes is anti-gel... and nothing else (not a good thing in my opinion)!!!!!!!
What is confusing is that Ford states that a cetane of 40 is recommended, but since the pumps are not labled, no one really knows.
As well, Ford uses fuel with a cetane of 45 - 50 in their labs and test tracks and this is where the performance numbers (HP and torque) come from as well as overall motor performance.... but in the "real world" we all end up buying diesel fuel with a much lower cetane level and wonder why our truck does not operate like the manufacture stated it would.
---------------------
I filled up last night at my local truck stop and was told that due to the extreme cold temps, their supplier was mixing 20% 1D with the 2D fuel, plus an additive to get to an acceptable winter-blend (so it doesn't gel up). As we all know, 1D does not lubricate as well and has less thermal energy... so I still added my Powerservice if nothing else... for the lubricity benefits!!!!
-------------------------------
Here is why I will NOT use Howes diesel fuel additives....
1) They promote that their product prevents gelling (which I agree it does)... but that is all.
2) They claim it adds power or better mileage, but the slick marketing is that they do NOT state they have cetane improves in the product rather that their product negates the need for using #1D fuel to prevent gelling which we all know using #1D fuel has lower engery content... so their claim is more power by not having to use #1D fuel.
Their marketing claims is just as shaddy as Amsoil's is on their oil products.
Their product does NOT contain cetane improves which is why it costs less. We all know that low cetane levels is what is hurting the performance of our trucks... so Powerservice is a better product than Howes as Powerservice contains cetane improves!!!
Here is the Howes link:
Howes Lubricator: Products
Look at the bottom of the page and read carefully.... especially the part in red!!! Not sure how an additive prolongs filter life? It either filters the fuel or it doesn't!! No where do they mention anything about adding lubricity agents... they just state that it protects at the top of the page, but not even as a "bullet point"... so it must not be a real benefit???
The best cold weather protection available — Howes can lower the Cold Filter Plugging Point by up to 20°F or more.
Increases fuel economy — reduced requirement for blended fuel, which has lower BTU content.
Prolongs fuel filter life. Howes reduces contaminants and safely controls water.
Non-solvent, non-alcohol formula is safe to use in all weather conditions.
Low cost per treated gallon — one gallon of Winter Treat Plus treats 3000 gallons of fuel.
Again, due to cost and availability and the fact that Powerservice contains cetane improvers and a lubricity agent... it's my choice hands down!!!
Hope this helps educate those that may be using Howes and not seeing the benefits some of us who use Powerservice are seeing!!!
----------------------------------
Here is a link about diesel fuel and what to look for. I have never heard of this product and to not endorse it, but the information on the link below is very good "basic" info.
Diesel Dosing
QUOTE FROM THE ABOVE LINK:Additives control water year-round. Emulsifiers suspend tiny droplets that pass through the fuel system. De-emulsifiers alter diesel so it won't hold water, so water drops to the bottom of the tank. Water should be removed regularly. Controlling water also helps control organic growth.
Why am I so passionate about this topic.....
A lot of diesel owners try and do the right thing by using additives, but don't realize the differences in them and end up causing damage to their motors... when they thought they were using a quality product.
Again, I do not care what brand people use... just do your research, read the bottles and call the companies... or read this thread.
As you all know, I use Powerservice products which is a "demulsifier" additive versus other brands (not sure which ones unless you read their lables or call the companies)... but you WANT to seperate the water from the fuel versus having the additive collect to it and allowing it to be burned. The big problem is this leads to injector wear and water will not compress when shot through the injector leading to injector damage!!! Powerservice and Stanadyne are demulsifiers (good additives) and Howes is an emulsifier (bad) fuel additive.
Howes = Bad (prevents gelling, but nothing more)
Powerservice = Good (Less expensive and readily available)
Stanadyne = Good (More expensive and not as readily available)
--------------------------------
For the most part, all the diesel motors basically need the same cetane rating to work and function properly and all diesel fuel is basically the same.
The more cetane, the more power. This is why using an additive that adds cetane (Powerservice or Stanadyne) is better than ones that do not (Howes and others). As well, Howes does not add lubrication to ones fuel, just allows for less #1D that has very little lubricity. The only benefit to Howes is anti-gel... and nothing else (not a good thing in my opinion)!!!!!!!
What is confusing is that Ford states that a cetane of 40 is recommended, but since the pumps are not labled, no one really knows.
As well, Ford uses fuel with a cetane of 45 - 50 in their labs and test tracks and this is where the performance numbers (HP and torque) come from as well as overall motor performance.... but in the "real world" we all end up buying diesel fuel with a much lower cetane level and wonder why our truck does not operate like the manufacture stated it would.
#4
01-18-2009, 12:31 PM
My post below discusses the quality of diesel fuel and why additives (not all brands of them) are important... either for ant-gelling or basic lubricity purposes.
---------------------
I filled up last night at my local truck stop and was told that due to the extreme cold temps, their supplier was mixing 20% 1D with the 2D fuel, plus an additive to get to an acceptable winter-blend (so it doesn't gel up). As we all know, 1D does not lubricate as well and has less thermal energy... so I still added my Powerservice if nothing else... for the lubricity benefits!!!!
-------------------------------
Here is why I will NOT use Howes diesel fuel additives....
1) They promote that their product prevents gelling (which I agree it does)... but that is all.
2) They claim it adds power or better mileage, but the slick marketing is that they do NOT state they have cetane improves in the product rather that their product negates the need for using #1D fuel to prevent gelling which we all know using #1D fuel has lower engery content... so their claim is more power by not having to use #1D fuel.
Their marketing claims is just as shaddy as Amsoil's is on their oil products.
Their product does NOT contain cetane improves which is why it costs less. We all know that low cetane levels is what is hurting the performance of our trucks... so Powerservice is a better product than Howes as Powerservice contains cetane improves!!!
Here is the Howes link:
Howes Lubricator: Products
Look at the bottom of the page and read carefully.... especially the part in red!!! Not sure how an additive prolongs filter life? It either filters the fuel or it doesn't!! No where do they mention anything about adding lubricity agents... they just state that it protects at the top of the page, but not even as a "bullet point"... so it must not be a real benefit???
The best cold weather protection available — Howes can lower the Cold Filter Plugging Point by up to 20°F or more.
Increases fuel economy — reduced requirement for blended fuel, which has lower BTU content.
Prolongs fuel filter life. Howes reduces contaminants and safely controls water.
Non-solvent, non-alcohol formula is safe to use in all weather conditions.
Low cost per treated gallon — one gallon of Winter Treat Plus treats 3000 gallons of fuel.
Again, due to cost and availability and the fact that Powerservice contains cetane improvers and a lubricity agent... it's my choice hands down!!!
Hope this helps educate those that may be using Howes and not seeing the benefits some of us who use Powerservice are seeing!!!
----------------------------------
Here is a link about diesel fuel and what to look for. I have never heard of this product and to not endorse it, but the information on the link below is very good "basic" info.
Diesel Dosing
QUOTE FROM THE ABOVE LINK:Additives control water year-round. Emulsifiers suspend tiny droplets that pass through the fuel system. De-emulsifiers alter diesel so it won't hold water, so water drops to the bottom of the tank. Water should be removed regularly. Controlling water also helps control organic growth.
Why am I so passionate about this topic.....
A lot of diesel owners try and do the right thing by using additives, but don't realize the differences in them and end up causing damage to their motors... when they thought they were using a quality product.
Again, I do not care what brand people use... just do your research, read the bottles and call the companies... or read this thread.
As you all know, I use Powerservice products which is a "demulsifier" additive versus other brands (not sure which ones unless you read their lables or call the companies)... but you WANT to seperate the water from the fuel versus having the additive collect to it and allowing it to be burned. The big problem is this leads to injector wear and water will not compress when shot through the injector leading to injector damage!!! Powerservice and Stanadyne are demulsifiers (good additives) and Howes is an emulsifier (bad) fuel additive.
Howes = Bad (prevents gelling, but nothing more)
Powerservice = Good (Less expensive and readily available)
Stanadyne = Good (More expensive and not as readily available)
--------------------------------
For the most part, all the diesel motors basically need the same cetane rating to work and function properly and all diesel fuel is basically the same.
The more cetane, the more power. This is why using an additive that adds cetane (Powerservice or Stanadyne) is better than ones that do not (Howes and others). As well, Howes does not add lubrication to ones fuel, just allows for less #1D that has very little lubricity. The only benefit to Howes is anti-gel... and nothing else (not a good thing in my opinion)!!!!!!!
What is confusing is that Ford states that a cetane of 40 is recommended, but since the pumps are not labled, no one really knows.
As well, Ford uses fuel with a cetane of 45 - 50 in their labs and test tracks and this is where the performance numbers (HP and torque) come from as well as overall motor performance.... but in the "real world" we all end up buying diesel fuel with a much lower cetane level and wonder why our truck does not operate like the manufacture stated it would.
---------------------
I filled up last night at my local truck stop and was told that due to the extreme cold temps, their supplier was mixing 20% 1D with the 2D fuel, plus an additive to get to an acceptable winter-blend (so it doesn't gel up). As we all know, 1D does not lubricate as well and has less thermal energy... so I still added my Powerservice if nothing else... for the lubricity benefits!!!!
-------------------------------
Here is why I will NOT use Howes diesel fuel additives....
1) They promote that their product prevents gelling (which I agree it does)... but that is all.
2) They claim it adds power or better mileage, but the slick marketing is that they do NOT state they have cetane improves in the product rather that their product negates the need for using #1D fuel to prevent gelling which we all know using #1D fuel has lower engery content... so their claim is more power by not having to use #1D fuel.
Their marketing claims is just as shaddy as Amsoil's is on their oil products.
Their product does NOT contain cetane improves which is why it costs less. We all know that low cetane levels is what is hurting the performance of our trucks... so Powerservice is a better product than Howes as Powerservice contains cetane improves!!!
Here is the Howes link:
Howes Lubricator: Products
Look at the bottom of the page and read carefully.... especially the part in red!!! Not sure how an additive prolongs filter life? It either filters the fuel or it doesn't!! No where do they mention anything about adding lubricity agents... they just state that it protects at the top of the page, but not even as a "bullet point"... so it must not be a real benefit???
The best cold weather protection available — Howes can lower the Cold Filter Plugging Point by up to 20°F or more.
Increases fuel economy — reduced requirement for blended fuel, which has lower BTU content.
Prolongs fuel filter life. Howes reduces contaminants and safely controls water.
Non-solvent, non-alcohol formula is safe to use in all weather conditions.
Low cost per treated gallon — one gallon of Winter Treat Plus treats 3000 gallons of fuel.
Again, due to cost and availability and the fact that Powerservice contains cetane improvers and a lubricity agent... it's my choice hands down!!!
Hope this helps educate those that may be using Howes and not seeing the benefits some of us who use Powerservice are seeing!!!
----------------------------------
Here is a link about diesel fuel and what to look for. I have never heard of this product and to not endorse it, but the information on the link below is very good "basic" info.
Diesel Dosing
QUOTE FROM THE ABOVE LINK:Additives control water year-round. Emulsifiers suspend tiny droplets that pass through the fuel system. De-emulsifiers alter diesel so it won't hold water, so water drops to the bottom of the tank. Water should be removed regularly. Controlling water also helps control organic growth.
Why am I so passionate about this topic.....
A lot of diesel owners try and do the right thing by using additives, but don't realize the differences in them and end up causing damage to their motors... when they thought they were using a quality product.
Again, I do not care what brand people use... just do your research, read the bottles and call the companies... or read this thread.
As you all know, I use Powerservice products which is a "demulsifier" additive versus other brands (not sure which ones unless you read their lables or call the companies)... but you WANT to seperate the water from the fuel versus having the additive collect to it and allowing it to be burned. The big problem is this leads to injector wear and water will not compress when shot through the injector leading to injector damage!!! Powerservice and Stanadyne are demulsifiers (good additives) and Howes is an emulsifier (bad) fuel additive.
Howes = Bad (prevents gelling, but nothing more)
Powerservice = Good (Less expensive and readily available)
Stanadyne = Good (More expensive and not as readily available)
--------------------------------
For the most part, all the diesel motors basically need the same cetane rating to work and function properly and all diesel fuel is basically the same.
The more cetane, the more power. This is why using an additive that adds cetane (Powerservice or Stanadyne) is better than ones that do not (Howes and others). As well, Howes does not add lubrication to ones fuel, just allows for less #1D that has very little lubricity. The only benefit to Howes is anti-gel... and nothing else (not a good thing in my opinion)!!!!!!!
What is confusing is that Ford states that a cetane of 40 is recommended, but since the pumps are not labled, no one really knows.
As well, Ford uses fuel with a cetane of 45 - 50 in their labs and test tracks and this is where the performance numbers (HP and torque) come from as well as overall motor performance.... but in the "real world" we all end up buying diesel fuel with a much lower cetane level and wonder why our truck does not operate like the manufacture stated it would.
If you read the article from Lubrizol, They say all diesel is not the same. It depends on where the crude came from and who refined it.
#5
01-18-2009, 01:01 PM
#6
01-18-2009, 01:17 PM
BeachBum: to answer your question.If they prevent gelling they will lenghten the life of your filters. after a gelling episode your fulters will be coated with parafin.
And it does depend on your source of diesel. Our diesel here out of the tap is ussually good for -45'F. But its straight #1. I put FOMOCO in every tank. It was -60'f here last week and no issues.
If I didn't know better I could say you fuel suppliers suck because you fuel has gelled at +5'F. But the trueth is most of you don't need winter diesel more than a couple times a year. The supplier has to sell you a diesel that performs well or you will buy it from someone else. Because there is a noticable power loss in using winter diesel. (my truck struggles to pull the snowmachines) and fuel mileage sucks.
But it still beats sitting on the side of the road because you chanced it and bought summer diesel.
And it does depend on your source of diesel. Our diesel here out of the tap is ussually good for -45'F. But its straight #1. I put FOMOCO in every tank. It was -60'f here last week and no issues.
If I didn't know better I could say you fuel suppliers suck because you fuel has gelled at +5'F. But the trueth is most of you don't need winter diesel more than a couple times a year. The supplier has to sell you a diesel that performs well or you will buy it from someone else. Because there is a noticable power loss in using winter diesel. (my truck struggles to pull the snowmachines) and fuel mileage sucks.
But it still beats sitting on the side of the road because you chanced it and bought summer diesel.
#7
01-18-2009, 02:27 PM
Sat. morning at 7:00AM it was 0 deg. at my place I had a full tank of fuel from Exxon. After letting my truck warm up for 5 min. I left home and after driving about 4 miles I could hear a slight tea kettle whistle coming from around my truck. When I got on a hill I noticed the truck was sluggish, when I floored it the truck slowed down a little and started to shudder. Made a U turn and came home, when I got in the driveway and with the door open I could hear the HFCM making the noise. The fuel was gelling with PS additive in it. This additive should not have been a issue at only 0 deg. if the fuel was a good winter blend. A heat gun with temps in the mid 30's today solved the problem. I suspect there was a partial blockage.
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#8
01-18-2009, 03:48 PM
Good write up. I'm not sure of your location, but I've fueled up in NY, VT, and MA in which every station that I've been to has the Cetane rating label on their pumps. Coincidentally, they have all been 40. I thought it was an EPA, or some other government body, thing that it had to be clearly displayed on the pump.
#9
01-18-2009, 04:07 PM
Good write up. I'm not sure of your location, but I've fueled up in NY, VT, and MA in which every station that I've been to has the Cetane rating label on their pumps. Coincidentally, they have all been 40. I thought it was an EPA, or some other government body, thing that it had to be clearly displayed on the pump.
#10
01-18-2009, 06:15 PM
<TABLE style="WIDTH: 634pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=845 border=0 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 634pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 30902" width=845><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 15.75pt" height=21><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 634pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 15.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=845 height=21>Cetane levels between 40 and 50 are required for optimum performance (from Ford's PC/ED Manual).</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
#11
01-18-2009, 06:49 PM
Like Juneau said, All the pumps I have fueled at have had a Minimum Cetane rating of 40. I use the same 2 stations up here and have seen the same in Reading PA and Mass. Also in Maine it was the same as well. I just try to buy fuel from a name brand source or truck stop if I am out of th area.
Sarge
Sarge
#12
01-18-2009, 07:48 PM
Certain states regulate how pumps should be marked (cetane levels) and certain states dictate if bio shold be added and used (Minnesota requires 2% bio in all diesel sold). Some counties in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area mandate a certain cetane level as well.
I live in Kansas and have traveled midwest states all the way to the West coast and no pumps are labled with the cetane level that I have ever seen.
FYI - I actually double-dose with Powerservice year-round at every fill-up. Grey Bottle for 3 seasons and white (anti-gel) in winter. I only fill-up at high volume stations with the belief that their fuel will be properly winterized on a more frequent basis, whereas smaller stations will not change their "formulations" until their next load is delivered.
I personally have never had the WIF light come and have never had a plugged filter in 5-1/2 years of driving my 6.0L PSD. I live in Kansas City and during the month of January and February we get down to -10F... so even though we do not get as cold as some... it's cold enough to gell diesel fuel if not properly treated.
My main comment to the forum is that not all additive is the same and to read carefully what they really offer when one disects their marketing claims.
Many use Howes, but I think that we will agree that with no cetane and no lubricity additive in their product... they fall way short of Powerservice and Stanadyne!!!!!
As well, I also wanted to educate people on the difference between demulsifiers and emulsifies.... as today's technology of Common Rail injection and firing of the injectors can not handle water being emulsified in the fuel. This is way Stanadyne and Powerservice are a better product.
I live in Kansas and have traveled midwest states all the way to the West coast and no pumps are labled with the cetane level that I have ever seen.
FYI - I actually double-dose with Powerservice year-round at every fill-up. Grey Bottle for 3 seasons and white (anti-gel) in winter. I only fill-up at high volume stations with the belief that their fuel will be properly winterized on a more frequent basis, whereas smaller stations will not change their "formulations" until their next load is delivered.
I personally have never had the WIF light come and have never had a plugged filter in 5-1/2 years of driving my 6.0L PSD. I live in Kansas City and during the month of January and February we get down to -10F... so even though we do not get as cold as some... it's cold enough to gell diesel fuel if not properly treated.
My main comment to the forum is that not all additive is the same and to read carefully what they really offer when one disects their marketing claims.
Many use Howes, but I think that we will agree that with no cetane and no lubricity additive in their product... they fall way short of Powerservice and Stanadyne!!!!!
As well, I also wanted to educate people on the difference between demulsifiers and emulsifies.... as today's technology of Common Rail injection and firing of the injectors can not handle water being emulsified in the fuel. This is way Stanadyne and Powerservice are a better product.
#13
01-18-2009, 07:53 PM
It will be the additives that a given distributor, truck stop or gas station requires that will make a difference... but with no real way of knowing the quality... I recommend using a good quality additive that lubricates, adds cetane and protects.
For this reason, I double-dose with Powerservice and have never had an issue and still have 100% of my OEM parts from when my truck was made... and Ihave over 139,000 miles on it.
#14
01-18-2009, 07:53 PM
#15
01-18-2009, 07:56 PM
BeachBum: If I didn't know better I could say you fuel suppliers suck because you fuel has gelled at +5'F. But the trueth is most of you don't need winter diesel more than a couple times a year. The supplier has to sell you a diesel that performs well or you will buy it from someone else. Because there is a noticable power loss in using winter diesel. (my truck struggles to pull the snowmachines) and fuel mileage sucks.
But it still beats sitting on the side of the road because you chanced it and bought summer diesel.
But it still beats sitting on the side of the road because you chanced it and bought summer diesel.
My local truck stop added 10% #1D 2 weeks ago and late last week had increased that to 20% 1D... and I still use Powerservice (white bottle) if nothing else to increase the cetane levels and lubricate my system... since we all know that #1D is mostly Kerosene and a poor lubricant.