Seperated by language and skin color.

But when you really think about it - human beings are the same everywhere.

It is in the thoughts that we find one another identical: We LOVE, we CARE, we fight for our beliefs, or territory. We cherish our children, and hope for them.... We explore science, and preserve mythology

It is in the differences we seek differences... Culture and so on.


What is the difference between black, white, red, yellow, or tan? If there is no difference - there isn't one

We love and live...

We were made by the same GOD (up to interpretation, yet so)

I cannot really find any true differences between us at all


No matter our age, we are all children trying to learn

We are just "HUMAN BEINGS"

 

In principle Wolfie, I would say you are right. In practice I am not so sure. There have been individuals , in our world history, that have certainly been less than human.

To your point though...autrocities committed have not been exclusive to any one religion, color, race, culture, or nationality.

 

There is that, too...

 

We inherit from our ancestors a multitude of things. If you put 3 or 4 small children whose parents have very strong beliefs that make them kill each other the small children will still play. Teach them hate and dont forget they are subject to it anyway from their ancestors and then the trouble begins.We like dogs have learned behavior and inherited learned behavior. This is proved by watching a dog with a bone for the first time who has never even been outside he will still know to go and bury it. Dont forget he may have never even seen dirt before. Very interesting post.

 

Good post, You know when you get down to the basic your exactly correct.
Craig

 

I think that goes across the board with a lot of behaviours, and yet a ground squirrel and a tree squirrel have behaviours based on the environment they adapted to.

They're still fundamentally alike, but one digs itself a hole, while another climbs a tree...

Some people adapted to living in a desert, some to islands, some to deep woods and so on. What happens if someone with an ancestral background of one type of environment is transplanted to another?

"Crocodile Dundee" syndrome???

"G'day mate! What's your tribe?"

 

The thing is, do we really want to reduce the glory of human diversity to just a few fundamentals like love and red blood?

Sure, all humans have a common core. We all bleed, we all hurt, we all care, we all love, we all cherish our children, and so on. But mankind moved beyond such basics eons ago. We embellished our basic human identity with language, culture, values, laws, literature, beliefs, religions, customs, arts, and more. And as geographically localized peoples developed common sets of these things, they evolved into distinct ethno-cultural groups. The physical traits that localized breeding selectively reinforced are just superficial visual things that in and of themselves are unimportant - it's the history of people-building they represent that is important.

What I'm saying is, ethno-cultural identity DOES matter. Travel some and you'll find out that it matters a great deal to 90% of the world.

We should not be afraid of it. Admitting that distinction exists should not be seen badly. To want everyone to be the same is a terribly immature desire. Like children who want everyone to fit in the group. If we're mature about it, we can allow people to have their distinct identities AND still be friends. That you consider yourself different from me does not mean you hate me, it doesn't mean you think you're better than me. On the contrary, if you will recognize my difference, respect it, and still be my friend, then you are a far more progressive man than he who wants to rob everyone of their distinctiveness to satisfy some immature need for everyone to be the same.

 

We're all born.

We all die...some, sooner than others.

If I had enough time left on this rock to worry about finding the differences between myself and others, I'd guess that I'd already done everything else there was to do in the world.

We all come into the world innocent, we all leave it the product of our own decisions. In the end, we're all just dust on a watery rock spinning in blackness. The world will eventually end, humanity will most likey eventually cease to be, either due to itself or outside forces.

We're not all the same in life...but at the end, everyone is identical.

 

Without going into the religious aspects of this an understanding of the differance betwen "MIND BODY and SOUL" would help or a good long smoke of some happy weed......

 

well i know Dutch we agree on alot of stuff but im havin trouble with this one. shure to the fact we are all people we are the same but thats where it ends. realy some folks are this or that and differnt in MANY ways so if you go back to 100% basics mbe we realy close to the same.ill stop there cuzz most folks cant handle my beliefs. ive got a sertain rebel flag hanging in my shop that cost me a couple freinds already

 

The ONLY difference between human beings, regardless of the color of their skin, is how they are raised. Period. End of story.

I was raised by covertly racist parents, my mother in particular.
When "those people" started moving into our white neighborhood, I heard innumerable comments that skewed my way of thinking until I was 20 years old.
During my 20th summer, I landed a job at Equitable Gas company in Pittsburgh, PA. In Pittsburgh, most of the downtown and surrounding area has natural gas piped to each home, just like everyone has electricity run to their house. My job was to shut of home gas service to non-paying customers. Law doesn't permit (at the time anyway) shutting off gas service in the winter time, so the company hired extras in the summer to take care of all the service termination work. I'll state, by the way, that gas shut offs didn't occur for missing one payment. Typically, anyone getting their gas shut off had cumulative bills in the thousands of dollars range. They had all kinds of payment plan options, etc. Part of my training was to spend a day with one of the customer service reps as he attempted to work out payment plans with customers. Terminating service truly was the "last resort" by the time the gas was shut off.
Anyway, I was in the homes (older houses had the gas meter in the basement) of hundreds and hundreds of different families. And I saw people of all races living lifestyles ranging anywhere from pig-like to prince-like.
I met some of the meanest, nastiest, filthiest, creepiest examples of people of the planet. And their skin colors ranged from lily white to the deepest of ebony blacks. They were victims of their own sloth, greed, carelessness, and slovenly attitude. Regardless of their race, they lived like pigs. I climbed over rotted piles of clothes in basements. I had dogs sicced on me (Got a tone of dog stories!) I had been threatened with bodily harm and struck on more than one occasion. I had police escorts to some of the dwellings to which I was assigned. I had to shower immediately after work each day to get the fleas off my body and the stench out of my nose.

I also met some of the most pleasant, kind, polite, and honest examples of people of any race on the planet. They were victims of a dying economy (1980 Pittsburgh, big steel was in its death throes) and the subsequent lack of employment opportunities in the community. They were hard-working and proud of the homes they had built for themselves and their families. Regardless of their race, they lived with dignity and honor. It truly broke my heart to turn their gas off. I would return home from work some days and just sit in the back yard and relish my good fortune to be in a financially secure home.

At any rate, that summer cured me of any racism my parents had indoctrinated in me. I saw it all. I saw blacks in clean, attractive homes and and I saw blacks in pigsties that weren't fit for a pig to live in. I saw whites in clean, attractive homes and I saw whites in pigsties that weren't fit for pigs. I caught vile attitude from whites and blacks. I was in white homes that I wouldn't have eaten in if I were starving and I was in black homes that I would have loved to live in.
Color of skin had nothing, NOTHING to do with it at all.

Humans are humans. Medical and genetic anomalies aside (Down's syndrome, FAS, crack-babies, retardation, etc. aside; none of which were their own doing) they are products of their environment and upbringing.

I rarely get angry on these forums. If I have a difference of opinion with someone, I'll tend to try to make my point then walk away as opposed to entering into a lengthy debate.

But you, sir, infuriate me. You, and people like you, disgust me. The ignorance of racists, frankly, astounds me! I am a big fan of the personal right of one to believe what he or she may believe, but the belief that the color of a human beings skin determines their worthiness to exist on this planet in peace and in the pursuit of their personal happiness, is indefensible.
Indefensible. Indefensible!!!

Take that silly flag down and open your eyes to the reality of the world.

Sincerely,

A member of the Human race.

Reps to Greywolf and, for the first time ever for me, negative reps to wizzard.

 

And thereinlies the problem, ckal. Separating outright racism (bad) from "cultur-ism" (good).

You would never travel to Haiti and tell proud Haitian people that there is no such thing as a "real" Haitian because we are all just human. You'd never go to Morocco and tell a Moroccan the same thing. Because that would be terribly rude to strip them of their ethno-cultural identity like that, to try to deny the very existence of the narrative that created the Haitian or the Moroccan people and distinguished their culture, their history, their value systems, from other humans. You're probably far too sensitive a man to do something so ignorant.

And giving them the respect of recognizing the distinctiveness and innate value of their identity is not racism unless you think that the mere difference in the color of your skin makes you any better. The color of their skin may be one element among many that collectively form their identity, but is not determinant in their value as a human.

And thereinlies the problem - making that subtle distinction.

It's a poblem for both sides of the argument. Too often people who really just mean "I want recognition of my own group identity" don't know how to say it without resorting to simple-minded racist formulas. Too often people who really just mean "OK, just so long as you don't mean your skin color makes you better" don't know how to say that and resort to simple minded formulas like "We're all the same! Any other position is racist!". And the discussion degenerates quickly.

 

People might be created equal in a lot of ways. But the same cannot be said for human cultures. You can insert an African or an Asian person into a European culture and he'll assimilate. But bring in too many of them, allow them to import their own culture, and you'll have trouble.



There's no shame in being proud of who you are. Don't ever let anyone take that away from you.

 

If you wanna get technical there is plenty of differences in humans, we come in all different colors, weights, heights, ect ect. I can see how a person's upbringing can influence the choices they make in their adult lives, but people do have the ability to change. Its less about how you were raised, and more about how deeply you let your upbringing influence your adult life. I believe one of the major problems in this country is the idea that we're being forced fed, the whole 'we're all the same' bullcrap.

I'm not gonna come on here and start with the whole 'we're all children of god' non-sense. In reality we all did come from the same place. I will not mention this place, only because it's journey begins with surtain vial acts that daddy did to mommy. Things I'm sure we all would rather not imagine our parents doing.

I shared a similar experience to this long ago, while job shadowing over a couple summers with my father and a few other fellow Linemen; at what was then Midwest Power. My dad was responsible for cutting off peoples power when they were 3 months behind, and they hadn't made payment arrangements. My dad loved his job, he use to say it was one of the few lines of work were the customer is always wrong. Where you and I differ is I don't feel bad these people, non payment for services makes you no better then a common thieve. The power company would bend over backwards for its customers. Some people were over a year behind but allowed to keep their power because they showed the initiative and they signed up on a payment plan.

People sitting on their butts at home collecting a welfare check and expecting free electricity and gas. Socialism at its finest, welcome to America. Good god I think I'm gonna be sick.

Where you and I differ again. My experience only instilled a deeper dislike for those on the 'other side of town'. I've been called a racist and a bigot. Truth of matter is I don't hate others simply because of their skin color, I hate people who sit around expecting government hand-outs funded by hard working Blue collar Americans like myself and many of my fellow FTEer's. In any other country these people would simply find jobs, or die off. In my demographic many of these slime of the earth types just so happen to be minorities, therefor myself being a white male I'm labeled a racist by default when I have something to say about the hellhole they're turning our country into.

Perhaps you and others have noticed that in mainstream America the vast majority of people being labeled as "racists" are white males. If a minority or a female has something bad to say about me they're simply expressing themselves and they're praised by their peers, and the media, for doing so. As if I've somehow "oppressed" them by working 40+ hours a week, paying my bills, and caring for my family.

I sure my parents would meet most people's racist criteria. All that aside we lived in a happy normal home. My parents provided my 3 sisters and I with warm clothes, a roof over our heads, and plenty to eat. We were not spoiled by any means but we were happy.

The only reason I responded to your post was because of the 'people like you' comment in the above paragraph. I'm sure you and others "non-racists" would put me in that category as well.

Like I made mention to earlier I don't judge a persons value based only on their skin color. Instead I actually base my judgment on their actual value. If a person doesn't wish to amount to anything they have no value, their worthless to me and to the country. If a person chooses to simply sit on their butt and draw a welfare check then they're also worthless. Like I said earlier their just so happens to be more minorities in the worthless category in my demographic.

I have no problem with anyone pursuing their happiness, I respect their right to do so. Is it to much to ask that others respect mine? You know regardless of race, sex, or religion, a .45ACP round speaks the same in every language. Is it really my fault that I fell safe in my primarily white working class neighborhood? Any idiot could see the difference in crime rates between here and 'the other side of town'. Since my line of work has me on that side through out the day I keep my trusty M1911 A1 at my side, unlike most people over there it actually has a job.

This may come as a surprise to you but the crisscross bars and 13 stars fly proudly over my property every day. I've opened my eyes to the world and for the most part it disgusts me. My "silly" flag reminds me of a better time. No not because of slavery, but rather because of the state's and people's right to govern themselves without federal involvement. I was born under that flag, I have 17 relatives (that I know of) who fought to defend it. You people up here in yankeeland are damn proud of your flag and your family histories. People are encouraged to be proud of themselves and where they came from. Y'all are very tolerant of other cultures yet you degrade mine, you, sir, infuriate me.

Sincerely,

Another member of the Human race.


PS. Although I have no children of my own I do have a 4 year old nephew who means more then the world to me. Not that it matters but he is mixed race, half white half black. I don't discriminate, if anyone reguardless of their race or creed lays a single hand on his head I will tear theirs off. Blood is blood, loyalty is loyalty, family and friendships know no colors.

 

Of course we come in all shapes and sizes, etc. But we are still human beings regardless of our shape, size, color, etc. It is one's actions that define their "worth". That was my point.
I assert that any child raised from infancy to adulthood in a stable, loving home, housing a "normal" functional family has great potential to become a valuable contributing member of society. Regardless of his/her race. Much less so if a child is raised in an unstable environment. That was exactly my point, and I apologize for not being able to state it more clearly. Wizzard's post really worked me into a frenzy. Despite the fact that I took nearly a half hour to put my thoughts down clearly, I didn't quite get there.
Yes, people can change. Innumerable examples of people from all races and cultures rising above their upbringing and become assets instead of liabilities. I certainly don't disagree with you there.

I didn't feel bad for slackers and those that abused the system. I felt bad for those families that had been making a solid living but were without a job due to the collapse of the steel industry. Thousands were jobless. There were not enough other jobs. I am talking about people that were trying to survive, but could not. To have their services terminated was the ultimate humility for them.
Eventually, most of these same people moved out of the region to find work. Kudos to them for not sitting around waiting for a handout.

If you are complaining about the hellhole those "folks that have no jobs and are content to live on welfare without trying to better their lives" are turning our country into, you are not a racist.
If you are complaining about those (insert race here) that are turning our country into a hellhole, you are a racist. Nothing wrong with condemning another persons actions if those actions are negatively impacting hard working Americans. Everything wrong with condemning a person because of their skin color or where they live.

I haven't noticed this, but I would suspect that people being labeled as rascists are people making racist comments. If someone says "Those blacks/asians/orientals/etc. are ruining (fill in the blank)", then they are racist.
If they are saying "All these folks that are living beyond their means and taking public assistance instead of working at jobs that are plentiful in their area are ruining our country" and are called a racist, then they are being called so incorrectly. I am a white male and have never been called a racist.

Happy, normal home here too. Even when my father lost his job and collected unemployment until he finally found temporary work selling USA Today over the phone. Eventually, he was again able to work in his field, but it was a long haul.


If you want to include yourself in the "people like you category" with wizzard, then feel free to do so. He strongly stated that he had difficulty agreeing with Greywolf's IP. I made the connection with those beliefs and the flag he flies in his garage and the fact that he has lost friends over it.
So "people like you" are people that link the confederate flag to their beliefs about racial differences and, as a consequence find that some people refuse to associate with them. If the shoe fits, wear it. If you fit the description, then I stand by my statement. If not, then I don't see the problem.

Ditto. Not exactly my preferred choice of words, but certainly I agree in spirit.

So what? Still can't generalize. More than 85% of child molesters are male between the ages of 19 and 65. Nobody in their right mind would assume that you or I are one just because we fit the demographic.

I wasn't even going to comment on this one except for the "most people over there part". More than 51% "over there" are unemployed? Can this be backed with statistics? Nobody is living there because it happens to be the only housing they can afford until they get called back from a layoff or get the raise or promotion they are working towards?


No it doesn't surprise me. Why would that surprise me? Plenty of people fly them (and wear them on hats and belt buckles) around here, too. And I live in the North; 15 miles north of the Mason/Dixon, but the north nonetheless.
Wizzard clearly associated his flag with his beliefs about race and his loss of relationships with people that could stand neither. The same association is true for most of the people I know (not people I have seen around, but people that I know) in my demographic.
So, if you are someone who flies the confederate flag as a symbol of state rights vs. federal regulation, you are apparently an anomaly and I certainly support your right to do so.

Well, if your culture teaches to associate race with worth, then I am not tolerant of your culture. "You and those like you" refers specifically to Wizzard and his stated "problem" agreeing with Greywolf's post as well as his apparent linking of his beliefs to his confederate flag and the fact that doing so has caused others to refrain from associating with him any longer. A fact that he was, at least by my interpretation, somewhat proud of.



If it doesn't matter, why mention it? Whenever someone says something like that it reminds me of people I know that claim not to have a drinking problem, yet point out how long it has been since the last time they drank. If it is not a problem, why mention it?