Help, still wont start, ugh!
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Elder User
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 659
Likes: 2
From: Berthoud, CO
Help, still wont start, ugh!
I posted the other day about pulling the valve covers, tightening loose injectors, loose rocker arms, putting in all new glow plugs, etc. Well I figured my starting problems were over. I didnt plug the truck in last night to do a test. It was 15 degrees this am, went out and tried to start it, and no luck. Apparently I still have a problem.
What should I check next? I know the gpr is working and sending 11.3 volts to the glow plugs. I have new batteries also. All new glow plugs.
When Im cranking on it, the truck sounds like its firing then stops, then fires, then stops, etc.
Im wondering if the hpop reservoir may be draining overnight. Maybe something along the lines of that, not getting high oil pressure to the injectors. Maybe one or more of the injectors is bad, I did a buzz test and a contribution test, all came back fine, besided the new cps telling #3 and #8 injectors failed the contribution test.
Where should I go from here. New IPC or IPR maybe? Your help is most greatly appreciated.
Oh, and Merry Christmas to all of you. Hope you have a fantastic day.
What should I check next? I know the gpr is working and sending 11.3 volts to the glow plugs. I have new batteries also. All new glow plugs.
When Im cranking on it, the truck sounds like its firing then stops, then fires, then stops, etc.
Im wondering if the hpop reservoir may be draining overnight. Maybe something along the lines of that, not getting high oil pressure to the injectors. Maybe one or more of the injectors is bad, I did a buzz test and a contribution test, all came back fine, besided the new cps telling #3 and #8 injectors failed the contribution test.
Where should I go from here. New IPC or IPR maybe? Your help is most greatly appreciated.
Oh, and Merry Christmas to all of you. Hope you have a fantastic day.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,966
Likes: 50
From: Texas
Make sure you've got at least 10.5 volts while cranking. Weak batteries can cause a no start even when the motor is spinning fast enough. Try giving the truck a jump or waiting until the GPR (not the WTS light) cycles off before attempting to start to see if that helps.
Can you monitor ICP psi & IPR % while cranking?
Can you monitor ICP psi & IPR % while cranking?
Thread Starter
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Elder User
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Berthoud, CO
I dont have a way to monitor the pressure while cranking. Motor spins over fairly fast, but not really fast. I wonder if my starter is starting to drag. It seems like on these engines, if they dont crank fast they wont start. Is that due to the oil pressure on the injectors not building up enough to fire?
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,966
Likes: 50
From: Texas
The spec calls for I believe 100 rpm's min. while cranking. The common problem is if the battery voltage drops too much while cranking, the IDM will not fire the injectors. So oil pressure isn't the common culprit.
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 679
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From: NW Burbs of Illinois
whats the temp there?
My truck had a bad tank of diesel and with the -4 temps we had, it gelled right up. had to have it towed to go warm up in a shop and its been working fine since. try putting a bottle of diesel 911 in the tank then also put 50/50 diesel and diesel 911 in the fuel bowl. Make sure too that your fuel bowl is even filling up. drain it then put the fuel filter back in, cycle the key a few times then take the filter back out and see if fuel is in there.
My truck had a bad tank of diesel and with the -4 temps we had, it gelled right up. had to have it towed to go warm up in a shop and its been working fine since. try putting a bottle of diesel 911 in the tank then also put 50/50 diesel and diesel 911 in the fuel bowl. Make sure too that your fuel bowl is even filling up. drain it then put the fuel filter back in, cycle the key a few times then take the filter back out and see if fuel is in there.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,191
Likes: 4
From: Blairsville,Ga
when mine got bad I would have to cycle glowplugs at least wice before it would start at 80 deg
Thread Starter
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Elder User
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Berthoud, CO
Like I said, i have new batteries, and a new postive cable. However, when I put a charger on the truck it will spin over faster. Today the temp was 15 I think. However even with the charger on and trying to start it, it still will fire crank crank fire crank fire crank over and over. Black smoke comes out of the pipe. Just seems like maybe all the injectors arent firing or something. I had the ipr relaced 70k miles ago. IPC going south, would that cause this?
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Blairsville,Ga
you can unplug it and try to start,if it starts the sensor is bad
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Elder User
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Berthoud, CO
Weird thing about this situation, is that if I plug the truck in for 3 hours or so, it starts and runs fine, no problems what so ever.
Is this because the oil is warm (im running rotella synthetic) thus allowing the engine to turn over faster thus allowing oil to fire the injectors sooner? Is plugging in the truck allowing weak injectors to fire easier with warm oil? Is this simple as warm oil allowing a weak starter to spin the engine faster? I know its not the electrical glow plug side of things causing this problem.
I dont know where to go with this one. I wish I could monitor injector oil pressure and see where it is when its not starting to where it is when the engine runs.
I know this is heat related, plugged in, starts fine, no symptoms. Not plugged in, no start. All this with a entire set of new glow plugs and new wiring under the valve covers.
Any ideas?
Is this because the oil is warm (im running rotella synthetic) thus allowing the engine to turn over faster thus allowing oil to fire the injectors sooner? Is plugging in the truck allowing weak injectors to fire easier with warm oil? Is this simple as warm oil allowing a weak starter to spin the engine faster? I know its not the electrical glow plug side of things causing this problem.
I dont know where to go with this one. I wish I could monitor injector oil pressure and see where it is when its not starting to where it is when the engine runs.
I know this is heat related, plugged in, starts fine, no symptoms. Not plugged in, no start. All this with a entire set of new glow plugs and new wiring under the valve covers.
Any ideas?
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,967
Likes: 0
From: Bowling Green, Kentucky
I know we all hate to think this but.I wou[d check the injectors again.
I had 2 that was weak and it would not start until I plugged it up in the cold weather.
My cure was a set of SWAMPS single shots and it starts at -2 without a plug now.
Just my 2 cents
I had 2 that was weak and it would not start until I plugged it up in the cold weather.
My cure was a set of SWAMPS single shots and it starts at -2 without a plug now.
Just my 2 cents
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,967
Likes: 0
From: Bowling Green, Kentucky
They showed weak when the truck was cold and 1 still showed weak after it warmed up
I also had what seemed like a miss while cold and it also ran like crap cold I mean it would barely pull itself until it ran for a few minutes.
I also had what seemed like a miss while cold and it also ran like crap cold I mean it would barely pull itself until it ran for a few minutes.
Thread Starter
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Elder User
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 659
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From: Berthoud, CO
By showing weak, what test were they doing, just a buzz or contribution test?
Your symptoms are exactly mine when its cold, if it starts. Below 20 and not plugged in, it wont start. But if it does start, its missing, and will barely run, wont move very well, etc. Finally going down the road, you can feel like half the miss go away like a cylinder started working, then after a bit, the other half of the miss goes away.
Wish I had a snap on scanner......
Your symptoms are exactly mine when its cold, if it starts. Below 20 and not plugged in, it wont start. But if it does start, its missing, and will barely run, wont move very well, etc. Finally going down the road, you can feel like half the miss go away like a cylinder started working, then after a bit, the other half of the miss goes away.
Wish I had a snap on scanner......
Thread Starter
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Elder User
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 659
Likes: 2
From: Berthoud, CO
Update!
Okay, so this am its 1 degree here. I went out and played around with the truck. I figured today would be a good day to put a battery charger on the truck while im starting to see if that helps. Im thinking this thing no way will start. Didnt plug the truck in overnight.
Put the battery charger on, turned on the key, got the volt meter out and tested the gpr just to make sure, 11.8 volts at the battery, GPR has 11.8 volts on the high side, 11.5 volts on the other, so thats okay.
Got in, turned the truck over, and voila, it starts. It didnt like life running at 1 degrees, but it runs! As soon as the gpr shut off, which was about 6 seconds after it started, you could definitly tell, truck started running rougher.
What are the chances that my starting problem after all the new glow plugs, etc is a starter issue? It sure doesnt spin over fast like it used to it seems now that im paying attention to this. Im thinking this is maybe a starter issue, starter dragging, not spinning fast enough, etc.
What do you guys think?
Put the battery charger on, turned on the key, got the volt meter out and tested the gpr just to make sure, 11.8 volts at the battery, GPR has 11.8 volts on the high side, 11.5 volts on the other, so thats okay.
Got in, turned the truck over, and voila, it starts. It didnt like life running at 1 degrees, but it runs! As soon as the gpr shut off, which was about 6 seconds after it started, you could definitly tell, truck started running rougher.
What are the chances that my starting problem after all the new glow plugs, etc is a starter issue? It sure doesnt spin over fast like it used to it seems now that im paying attention to this. Im thinking this is maybe a starter issue, starter dragging, not spinning fast enough, etc.
What do you guys think?