A while ago I had to replace my front pump seal, so I put in a billet torque converter, temperature gauge in the pan, and the largest cooler I could find. Even with that, it still routinely tops 200 degrees when driving. Today, however, it hit 260 (gauge topped out) when sitting at a red light for less than a minute (this was with the auxilary cooler fan on.) This just isn't right. What could be going on here? Faulty sender? Something in the transmission? Here are some things I know:
-transmission is pumping fluid. I haven't done an actual flow rate test.
-replaced engine cooling fan clutch.
-transmission fluid level is fine and not burnt.
-no tranny slippage.

Where do I go from here?

 

Id actually ck it with a infrared temp gun if that would work, that or just change out the sender and see if it happens again.

 

Pull the dip stick and smell the fluid. If it smells sweet she been over heated

 

Pull the rear cooler line off at the trans, put a rubber hose on the line and crank the truck. You should get a quart in 20secs.

It sounds like a faulty gauge to me, transmissions typically wont overheat sitting still.

 

can I do that in park, or does it need to be in a forward gear?

 

That sounds pretty dang hot for a transmission that seems to have a max safe temp of around 190.

My autometer sender is crapping out, most of the time it works correctly, but sometimes you can watch the needle dance all over its range. I'd suspect the sender before the transmission.

 

With all that cooling you have going on I'd suspect the gauge to, my tranny doesn't break a 110deg when plowing heavy wet snow. I have a very similar cooling system, new fan clutch and a large added cooler, two of them in fact.

If nothing else put your hand on the tranny pan when the gauge reads that high, if you can't hold it there yea its too hot.

 

Yea you should do this in park

 

Actually its a quart in 60sec, as tested while in neutral.

Getting a quart in twenty seconds is to fast and would give gweeds's a false perception his pump is bad even though perhaps receiving the correct flow rate of 1/2q in 30sec.

And that would be while idling, take measurement once it had a second or two to achieve solid stream and full flow.

 

Ok I did a flow test today. The return line (rear) took about a minute to pump 8oz of fluid . To see if there was a clog somewhere I tested the end of the output line, and it went a bit faster (about 12oz per minute. Still not nearly fast enough.) Should I assume that the front pump is bad? It was a steady stream of fluid, no sputtering or anything suspicious. I'm going to try and get ahold of an infrared thermometer and see if it really is getting so dang hot, or maybe use an oven thermometer...
Ooh, and the fluid smelled just the way it did when I put it in a few months ago...

 

How many miles on this one? Does sound a tad week but wouldn't expect it to be at or over what it would be "new" though, some loss of flow/pressure with mileage on it over time would be expected I'd think.

is there any kinks or pinched points in the cooling lines reducing flow?

You put a new filter in it with the fluid back then when you had it out/apart right?

Might be worth dropping the pan and just making sure the filter is on and in the hole tight a minute.

 

I just read a tech bulletin that talks about low cooler flow, I would share it but I cant seem to copy/paste a pdf file. It said to check the check valve at the rear fitting in the trans, I know its not the problem based on your test of the cooler flow, but it also talked about a second drain back check valve in the line on some vehicles, they say to remove it. Check to see if there is another inline valve on the other line coming from the trans. If there is no valve it sounds like the pump may have a problem.

The 1 quart in 20sec is a rule of thumb in the transmission repair business. 8oz in 60 is a problem.

 

The 1 quart in 20sec is a rule of thumb in the transmission repair business.

I understand that it was when I read your post I thought back to when I checked mine and that rate sounded a tad fast from what I recalled so I looked it up just to check.
That was why I posted, I didn't and don't seek out incorrect info and post to correct. I just didn't want "gweeds" to get the specified flow or a sufficient flow rate for a E4OD but think there was a problem because it wasn't at or near the quart in 20 seconds mark. A quart in 20 seconds is what? some 66% faster then what's called for in the service manual?
At the same time the book doesn't list 1/2q in 30 seconds as the "minimum" acceptable rate but that could very well be, it is possible I suppose, and you would know better than I, a E4OD can and does pump faster, much faster.

8oz in 60 is a problem.

Yes pumped through the cooling system and returned it is low, very low. At the same time as measured right out of the trans a rate of 12oz in 60 seconds would only be what? 25% under the recommended flow rate?
So if the cooling system was cleaned and checked and made not to reduce the flow would it be enough? On a truck with a few miles on it, say over 100,000 is near a 25% loss of flow normal and or acceptable?

When I tested mine it was at or very near the rate listed in the manual. Doesn't have a lot of miles on it yet though, well under that 100k mark still.

I think a line pressure test would be my next move? it does have a external pressure tap.

 

The pressure tap is on the driverside near the pan rail in front of the MLPS switch.

--------idle ----------- stall
N, P ---55-65 --------------
R ------75-99 -------240-265
OD, 2 --55-65 -------156-174
1 ------75-99 -------157-182

I will have to check my Ford Factory manual when I get back to the shop to see what it says about cooler flow. I just try to post what I have been taught over the years from ATRA seminars, AAmco training, and host of technical information sites I am a member of. I wish I could post the actual bulletin that I am referring too, but I cant seem to do that with a PDF file. I will be the first to admit that I dont everything, but I do have a mountain of information at my disposal and I dont mind sharing it to help people with there problems. That pressure chart was taken from ATRA online quick pressure chart for rebuilders, so was the info about the 2nd check valve on some vehicles, right after it mentioned the 20 sec rule. You have my curiosity up and I have a E40D at the shop to build when the customer gets some money, when we are finished with it I will run the coolerflow test on it to see what its reading is.


I dont know if this link will work for you (I pay for this site) but it has some info on converter failure, it also mentions cooler flow.

http://www.trnw.net/trnw/yaklin/yak-160.html#


Copied from trnw site below

Coolers - Some shops are reporting coolers (in the radiators) that apparently collapse internally when hot. The result is sufficient cooler flow when cold but an extreme drop in flow HOT. Take the time to check cooler flow when HOT. One quart in 20 seconds at idle is OK. Some shops are installing auxiliary coolers on vehicles that carry heavy loads to insure sufficient cooling capacity.

 

For what it's worth, when I had the E4OD rebuilt in my old truck, the trans shop recommended (and I had them install) 3/8 braided lines in place of the 1/4 steel lines. The guy at the shop told me that the weaknesses in the E4OD are oil cooler flow and solenoid packs.
They used the class A motor home sized AUX cooler that I had installed when I got the truck ONLY. They bypassed the radiator cooler, using only the AUX cooler with the 3/8 lines and warranted it that way.
100K+ miles later, not a single problem. I tow a 16 foot camper, about 3K lbs more or less frequently. That's not even enough to break a sweat for the 460 though.
I have towed a 28 footer a few times with no problems either....


My old truck is a 91 F250 Super cab, long bed, 4X4, 3.55LS, 460 V8, 250K miles and it's for sale.....