My truck is for sale and a man came by this morning to check it out. We did the walk around and I jumped in and fired up the throaty 460. We let it idle for a few minutes then he got in the driver's seat for a test drive. When he put it in gear the engine died. So, he put it back in PARK and turned the key....nothing. The dash lights didn't even come on. I told him to run the gear selector through the gears and try again. We got dash lights and buzzer after that, but absolutely nothing when he turned the key.

We pulled out the jumper cables and that didn't even help. He put the positive directly to the fender mounted solenoid and that didn't do anything. We have lights and buzzer, but there's not even a click when you turn the key all the way to start position.

I didn't have any trouble last night or this morning. The temperature here is 24 degrees, so that could have something to do with it, but it fired right up first thing this morning.

Could this be neutral safety switch....starter....solenoid.......?? Suggestions and troubleshooting techiniques welcome!!

Micah

 

Based upon what you are saying, and my own recent experience, I would say it is your starter. Pull it off and take it to the parts store and have them test it for you. If it is your starter, and you buy a rebuilt starter make sure they have tried that one too before you take it home to only act the same way as just happened to me.
If it is not your starter, I would look at your neutral safety switch. Good luck, and let us know how you make out. All too many times guys get their problem fixed and don't let us know if we gave good advise, or a guy having simular problems can't read the end result and have to post a new thred on the same subject.
Thanks and GOOD LUCK again!

 

There's a few ways to go here, take your pick. :)

1) swap parts out until you stumble across the problem
and/or it just clears up by itself. :)
2) use a meter to find the trouble while it's still failing.
3) sell it broken for real cheap and let the buyer fix it.
4) or something else I'm too dumb to think of. :)

Alvin in AZ
ps- If, you want to fix it like you mean business instead of
just farting around ;) buy a cheap analog meter and we'll help
you from here or get your friend that already has a meter to
help you. I say "we'll" because I'm not the only one on here
that knows how to shoot electrical trouble with a meter. :)
Someday this information needs to be posted to FTE and your
thread is as good as any. ;) Others will learn the procedure
too, see? :) I'm a retired dumb ditch digger and pole climber.
If I can do it anyone can! :) Are you game? :)

 

I'm always game to work on the truck, just not in 20 degree weather. What should I do first?

 

Pull it in a warm garage, and get that multimeter fired up and get ALVIN to explain where to and how to use it!

 

Oh crap, me and my big mouth, now what I've got myself into? :/

Your Honor ;) look at it this way, especially at 20*F, use the meter, find the
problem, fix the problem by swapping out only one part. :)

If that, could just be a bad connection! :)

Without a meter you could swap out a part and the problem clears up at the
same time and you think you've got it fixed. :) Seen that a hundred times!

So don't think that's far fetched. Half(?) of the time tho it involved messing
with the wires etc while a part was being swapped out, but like in this case,
the problem suddenly appeared and could just as easily disappear. Right? ;)

Alvin in AZ
ps- yeah I know you're selling it. ;)
pps- BTW... "electricity don't care what the part or connection looks like! :)"
ppps- ...so hunting electrical trouble with your eyes (or your wallet;) is just
plain ol' silly IMO YMMV

 

Do any lights come on (dome, gauges, etc....)? My '78 had a similar issue, but it was very intermittent. Turned out to be a bad ground cable from the battery to the block.

-Chris

 

Same with mine Torque. My cables were okay but my negative connection was somehow loose. I cleaned my posts and connectors, tightened everything down and I haven't had trouble since. [at least with power. :-) ]
Alvin are we all going to have to gather around like school children for your Multimeter class? :-)

 

I'd love to pull it into a warm garage, but it won't start.

I have noticed some corrosion at the terminal and in the positive cable to the solenoid. My first order of business is to replace both positive and negative cables ($10-12). It probably should have been done a long time ago and it will be a good selling point to the buyer. I'll also clean the terminals before putting the new cables on. I won't have an opportunity to do this work until Sunday afternoon.

I do get the underhood light and a strong buzzer when the key is turned to the "ON" position. But nothing happens at the "START" position.

So, when do the multimeter classes start??

 

Whack your starter with a hammer a couple of times! That seems to be the answer for alot of GM cars and trucks!! Do a search for Alvins posts, he has explained what to do several times this week. This will save you some time waiting for him to come back and repost his repostedness.. Also, reading the FAQ stickies answers alot of good questions too.

 

Does the hammer trick also work with Fords? It's not a GM product. Besides, the starter worked 2 minutes before that. My guess is that it's a bad or loose connection somewhere. That's where I'm starting, at least.

 

Sounds good from here. :)
Could be your starter relay that needs tapping?
Our starters are cool :) they don't have a solenoid that can be a source of
trouble.

"...the starter worked 2 minutes before that."

Yep. :)

-----------------

It's cool we have the old style battery post exposed so you can put a meter
directly on the battery itself, unlike them dangged side post batteries. :)

I've done all this by myself before and so can you, if you have to. ;)

The battery's exposed posts are the best place to start.

I suggest doing these tests when your vehicles are working ok so you'll
know what to expect when there is trouble. :)

----------------------------

The "un-loaded" battery voltage should be up there at 12 volts and not drop
down farther than about ~10 volts when your helper engages the starter.
(the starter loads the battery down with current draw and drops the voltage)

Then as the engine is rev-ed up a little, the voltage should go to 13+ volts.

That's the alternator applying more voltage (and current) to the battery than
the battery is using.

Plastic meter faces can hold an analog meter's needle in place with static
electricity, I huff and blow on them automatically before starting-out and
again anytime I get a reading I don't like. LOL :)

-----------------That's it, if it ain't broke!---------

If the voltage is low to start with, the battery is not charged up or has a
dead cell. Get a jump or put a charger on it. :)

-------------------

If the battery voltage is 12 volts but drops too far down to turn the starter
over good, the battery is weak and needs charging or it's gone bad. The
starter could be "shorted out inside" or the engine is "stuck" but those are
unusual. But still, they can be "figured out" using a meter.

"how old is the battery?"
"has it been acting like this before?"
"has it been run dead by leaving the lights on a few times in the past?"

Those can be clues the battery just plain ol' needs replacing.
But don't replace it without testing it with a meter first, see? ;)

Charge it up using a battery charger or jump it and let the alternator charge
the battery. You won't know the alternator is doing anything for you unless
you put a meter on it tho. ;)

Dead diesel batteries take a lot to charge them back up again. BTDT

A "short circuit" is where the current is going where you don't want it to.
A "shunt" is like a "short"... but you "shorted it out" on purpose. ;)

----------------------------

If the battery's 12 volts doesn't drop at all (when your helper turns the key
to start) then you've got an "open circuit" as if you didn't try the starter at
all.

A switch that's "off" is an "open circuit" too.
See it? :)

The "open circuit" could be anywhere between the battery's terminal clamps
to inside the starter. Could be the starter relay not getting "energized".

Or could be down the negative side to the engine block's connection.

The unloaded 12 volts will be every where along the wires.
The loaded voltage will stop right where the open is.

So, have your helper try the starter while you check the voltage at various
spots.

Move the meter leads to the clamps.
Move one or both doesn't matter.
Put the negative lead on something on the engine.
(distributor's vacuum motor is usually a good clean spot?)
(alternator's aluminum case another one?)

Jump as far as you feel like, the trick is to isolate the open by going
"too far" and finding "no voltage" where there should be voltage. :)
Then "back up" to the "open".
Easy as that.

... but the readings are taken while the circuit is "loaded" down with the
starter, acting as a shunt for you. A dirty bad clamp's connection will read
12 volts when the circuit is unloaded.

--------------------

I used to find broken rails in the middle of the night that way.
Never had to put the meter down and read the track's voltage more than 8
times. Supposed to ~3/4 volts but an open like a broken rail would split it
so it would read zero on the battery side and 1+1/2 volts on the relay end.

Because there was a "4 ohm track relay" loading the circuit down at the other
end the whole time. Could be open right inside the relay's coils, if lightning
burned it open. Didn't matter, the meter would find it no matter where the
open was! ;)

--------------------------

Opens are easy! :)
Shorts are where the pain begins. ;)

--------------------------------

If the "open" turns out to be at the relay, then read the voltage from ground
to both of the little terminals when your helper tries the starter. There's more
to that but I've got to go. :(

No voltage on either one of those?
Your ignition switch could be bad.

Voltage on both?
The relay isn't picking-up inside or the contact inside of it is bad (open).

----------------------

Doggonit it's 2:30 and I got to go. :(
Finish this later? :)

Alvin in AZ

 

Yesterday, I replaced the positive and negative battery cables. It was cheap and needed to be done regardless. So, I know I have a good ground and good juice to the solenoid.

Still....no energy when I turn the key to "Start." Alvin, I guess it's time to break out the multimeter.

Could the ignition switch be bad and still give me energy in the "ON" position? When I turn it to "ON" I still get lights and buzzer, but nothing in the "START" position.

 

Some ford starters had solenoids on the top, just like GM products.

Try jumping the starter solenoid on the fender well. SOMETHING should happen then. Test light, test light test light otherwise. They are cheap,and will tell you lots about whats going on.

 

They looked -that- bad? :)

I know it's common here and everywhere else to call the starter relay a
"solenoid" but Ford calls it what it really is... a relay. ;)

And... no, you don't "know" you've got any such thing. :/
Prob'ly do, but electricity don't go by looks or "new". :)
So you may not and won't "know" until you put a meter to it.
"Got it? :/" -Dillion in Predator

[quote]
Still....no energy when I turn the key to "Start."
[Butthead], I guess it's time to break out the multimeter.
/quote]

The time for getting out the meter is when you got out of the dead sucker
the first time to open the dangged hood! :/ JustMHOofcourse ;-)

Sure enough can, and the meter can tell you if the battery is weak. A weak
battery can fool a guy -with no meter- into thinking it ain't the problem by
lighting up lights etc. BTSeenT at least a dozen times.

I have more experience in this than most, since I'm the guy that goes out
of his way to show up with jumper cables and a meter. ;)

Been more than once their cables "didn't do it" and mine did.
Electricity don't care whose cables they are either. ;)

"Test light, test light, test light... They are cheap,and will tell you lots
about whats going on." -Beavis

Sure as heck better than checking out electrical trouble by eye! :)

And cheap and can be stuffed under the seat and beat the crap outta buying
"new anything" only to find out that ain't it! Like new cables for example. ;)

Coulda bought a test light with that money. :/

Butthead in AZ