Changing fluid on a C4
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Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2008
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From: Halifx Pa
Changing fluid on a C4
Hey, I am getting ready to change the transmission fluid in my 77 F150 C4. The truck had been setting in a barn in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
ffice:smarttags" /><st1:State><st1
lace>Ohio</st1lace></st1:State> for a long period of time. Now the transmission shifts beautifully, but it is time for a fluid change. It has 80,161 original miles.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
I pick up a new gasket and filter for it today and a case of ATF. Everyone suggested putting in a bottle of Lucas oil which would be good for the seals, which I got. I was wondering of I should be putting gasket sealer on the gasket?
<o></o>
Also should I start off by pulling off the dip stick tube? This would allow plenty of the fluid to drain, and pull the pan, and then pull the plug on the converter?
<o></o>
Any other pearls of wisdom would be appreciated too, and thanks in advance! J
ffice:smarttags" /><st1:State><st1lace>Ohio</st1lace></st1:State> for a long period of time. Now the transmission shifts beautifully, but it is time for a fluid change. It has 80,161 original miles. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
fficeffice" /><o></o>I pick up a new gasket and filter for it today and a case of ATF. Everyone suggested putting in a bottle of Lucas oil which would be good for the seals, which I got. I was wondering of I should be putting gasket sealer on the gasket?
<o
></o>Also should I start off by pulling off the dip stick tube? This would allow plenty of the fluid to drain, and pull the pan, and then pull the plug on the converter?
<o
></o>Any other pearls of wisdom would be appreciated too, and thanks in advance! J
New User
Joined: Sep 2008
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I am not much of a wrench, so I had my mechanic do it.He put a drain in the tranny pan to make it easy to drain.The torque converter still has a fair amount of fluid that needs to be changed.I was told to drive 500 miles with the new fluid and then drain again.
More Turbo
Joined: Aug 2008
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From: LaGrange
For,
__a true full fluid change without a lot of hassle this is what you do.
Go to your most trusted shop/garage & get a "transmission flush" done.
(Trans-flush is where they back-flow cleaner + new trans fluid, usally thru the cooling lines.)
& usally they will let you bring in your own brand of fluid if you wish.
(As long it's a good brand & not a low-quality/cheepie kind.)
Then go home & put your new trans-filter in.
(Be sure to catch your fluid in a "clean" contaner. So you can put it back in.)
__a true full fluid change without a lot of hassle this is what you do.
Go to your most trusted shop/garage & get a "transmission flush" done.
(Trans-flush is where they back-flow cleaner + new trans fluid, usally thru the cooling lines.)
& usally they will let you bring in your own brand of fluid if you wish.
(As long it's a good brand & not a low-quality/cheepie kind.)
Then go home & put your new trans-filter in.
(Be sure to catch your fluid in a "clean" contaner. So you can put it back in.)
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,739
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From: SE Florida
It's impossible to back flow a transmission. The pump is a very good check valve. The flush machines flow in the same direction the fluid flows when the trans is working normally.
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Posting Guru
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From: Halifx Pa
Well, from talking to others, and reading what is posted her from doing a search, I think I can pull it off pretty easy. pull the filler tube off and, then 1/2" for the pan, and then 5/16 for the screen, and watch for the spring thing and make sure the bolts go back into the same holes, due to different sizes. Gasket sealer, bolt it back up and replace the fluid and its ready to go.
A number of people told me to avoid the trans flush due to the transmission being 31 years old and the fact it had been setting for years in a barn in Ohio. Most everyone suggested putting in a bottle of Lucas oil, which I got.
I would have it done by now, but a cold been draggin me down, now I am back to work and have the weekend to work on it. So thanks to everyone for your help!
I'll post on her when I am done to let you know how it went.
A number of people told me to avoid the trans flush due to the transmission being 31 years old and the fact it had been setting for years in a barn in Ohio. Most everyone suggested putting in a bottle of Lucas oil, which I got.
I would have it done by now, but a cold been draggin me down, now I am back to work and have the weekend to work on it. So thanks to everyone for your help!
I'll post on her when I am done to let you know how it went.
More Turbo
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 531
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From: LaGrange
I was told by a Ford Mechanic that they back-flow the system with a automatic-transmission fluid exchanger pump type system.
Could I have misinterpreted what the trans-fluid-exchanger's WHOLE job,
verse's PART of it's job?
Plus, why when I replace my T-filter most shops request a filter that is "back-flow flushable"?
I'm told this is how the machine cleans the filter.
I'm really confused now.
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More Turbo
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 531
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From: LaGrange
__on what type of C4 trans it is.
The standerd class's tube is on top,
while the Heavy-Duty's is on the side of the pan.
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Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,739
Likes: 2,669
From: SE Florida
The only way to back flush a filter is to take out out of the trans. You can't back flush through the transmission unless you run the engine backwards. Hint: The engine will not run backwards.
SOMEBODY didn't understand here. It could be you, but it probably was him. Many people, even those that should know better, think these machines backflush because that's how they would do it. The machines can't backflush. It's impossible.
The way the machines work is that they tap into the cooler line. The engine is started and the transmission pumps fluid into the cooler line, then into the machine. The pressure from the cooler line pushes new fluid into the other end of the cooler line and back into the trans, in the same way the fluid originally flowed. It can't go backwards.
Again, they don't know what they are doing.
If it did clean the filter like that it would be a stupid way to do it. All it would do is dump whatever is in the filter back in the pan, just to be sucked back into the filter the first time the engine starts.
You can't clean a filter with a flush machine. You don't need to, either. If there is enough junk in the filter that it causes a problem it is because the trans has already failed. It needs to be rebuilt if the filter is plugged.
The way the machines work is that they tap into the cooler line. The engine is started and the transmission pumps fluid into the cooler line, then into the machine. The pressure from the cooler line pushes new fluid into the other end of the cooler line and back into the trans, in the same way the fluid originally flowed. It can't go backwards.
If it did clean the filter like that it would be a stupid way to do it. All it would do is dump whatever is in the filter back in the pan, just to be sucked back into the filter the first time the engine starts.
You can't clean a filter with a flush machine. You don't need to, either. If there is enough junk in the filter that it causes a problem it is because the trans has already failed. It needs to be rebuilt if the filter is plugged.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,982
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From: Somewhere Saskatchewan
You are correct, I was reading pull it out, which would indicate a push in tube.
More Turbo
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 531
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From: LaGrange
Ok,
__I always wondered how the dirt/grime would get out of the pan without dropping it.
Is this how it works?
The filter must be cleaned by the chemical cleaner by same way the rest of the trans is cleaned, by dissolving the grime/dirt to liquid state then flushing it out. Then followed by replacement of fresh ATF fluid.
Then may be followed by a opional filter change.
-Mabe?-
__I always wondered how the dirt/grime would get out of the pan without dropping it.
Is this how it works?
The filter must be cleaned by the chemical cleaner by same way the rest of the trans is cleaned, by dissolving the grime/dirt to liquid state then flushing it out. Then followed by replacement of fresh ATF fluid.
Then may be followed by a opional filter change.
-Mabe?-
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,739
Likes: 2,669
From: SE Florida
I would NEVER put one of those chemical cleaners in my trans. NEVER.
If it dissolves the stuff in the filter, what about the rest of the trans? Unless the trans has already failed there is very little in the filter, but what is there came from the trans. How does the chemical cleaner know to dissolve what's in the filter, but not dissolve the same material that's still working in the trans? Seems rather risky to me.
Flush out the old fluid and replace with new fluid. That's all you need to do. If it makes you feel better, drop the pan and replace the good filter with another filter.
If it dissolves the stuff in the filter, what about the rest of the trans? Unless the trans has already failed there is very little in the filter, but what is there came from the trans. How does the chemical cleaner know to dissolve what's in the filter, but not dissolve the same material that's still working in the trans? Seems rather risky to me.
Flush out the old fluid and replace with new fluid. That's all you need to do. If it makes you feel better, drop the pan and replace the good filter with another filter.
More Turbo
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 531
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From: LaGrange
Say,
__Mark-K can you tell us here what would possibly happen to a trans that hasn't been serviced for long time or has sat for years, If you "flush" it.
The only inherit danger I can think of, is that the cleaning chemical somehow is changed by the acids in the trans fliud may also strip/debond/damage the clutch surfaces in which will cause failer of trans?
-Or-
Just the sudden added grip made possible from going glased/slipping clutches, to stripped clean-hard surfaced one's (Meaning tha the clutch's serface is clean but not "softend" with clean ATF's buffering agents.) Which may cause clutch pads to break-off or burn-up?
-Or-
Large particals from build-up break off & plug up inportant passages, in-time causing long-term damage/breakage?
__Mark-K can you tell us here what would possibly happen to a trans that hasn't been serviced for long time or has sat for years, If you "flush" it.
The only inherit danger I can think of, is that the cleaning chemical somehow is changed by the acids in the trans fliud may also strip/debond/damage the clutch surfaces in which will cause failer of trans?
-Or-
Just the sudden added grip made possible from going glased/slipping clutches, to stripped clean-hard surfaced one's (Meaning tha the clutch's serface is clean but not "softend" with clean ATF's buffering agents.) Which may cause clutch pads to break-off or burn-up?
-Or-
Large particals from build-up break off & plug up inportant passages, in-time causing long-term damage/breakage?
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,739
Likes: 2,669
From: SE Florida
I have no idea. I would NEVER put one of those cleaning chemicals in my transmission. I never worked with them at Ford, either. I don't know what they can do, but any of your ideas above look possible to me.
I would just change the fluid, not put a cleaner in it.
I would just change the fluid, not put a cleaner in it.
More Turbo
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 531
Likes: 4
From: LaGrange
Well,
__I can only think of two ways to care for a trans:
#1.Change fluid+filter every 30,000/60,000 mi. (Depending on severity of driving &/or enviroment.)
#2.Disassemble it & clean &/or replace worn parts, Reassemble,fill,& drive with glee.
__I can only think of two ways to care for a trans:
#1.Change fluid+filter every 30,000/60,000 mi. (Depending on severity of driving &/or enviroment.)
#2.Disassemble it & clean &/or replace worn parts, Reassemble,fill,& drive with glee.