I installed a front stabilizer bar and it is great! So now I have the modification bug. Occasionally on hard starts when the pavement is wet or dirty I will get some slippage/wheel hop on the right rear. What is a simple way to eliminate that? Can a traction device be installed only on the right rear? Seems only a minimal effort would be needed to stop it, perhaps a shock absorber to the spring?

"Drive a stick young man! There'll be plenty of time for automatics when you're old and unable."

 

:-X23 Lost me. What model vehical with what type supension you got? How much power are you trying to put down?

If it's a pick up w/ leaf springs you could get "ladder/Traction Bars"
as they are pretty cheap. Replacement of your rear shocks with stiffer ones might help as well, again pretty cheap.

Best bet, altough way more costly, Upgrade to a limited slip/locker rear end in conjunction with the above.

Petrol

 

Thanks

>:-X23 Lost me. What model vehical with what type supension
>you got? How much power are you trying to put down?

*Sorry, forgot to say what I have. It is a '95 F150 5-speed manual 2WD with stock 300 I6.

>If it's a pick up w/ leaf springs you could get
>"ladder/Traction Bars"

*Thought about that. J.C. Whitney has "Off-Road Traction Bars" that mount on axle u-bolts ($68).

>as they are pretty cheap. Replacement of your rear shocks
>with stiffer ones might help as well, again pretty cheap.

*I had put heavy duty shocks on about 28,000 miles ago. Saw in a book where it looked like someone put a small shock absorber on the right rear spring to minimize wheel hop.

>Best bet, altough way more costly, Upgrade to a limited
>slip/locker rear end in conjunction with the above.
>.

*As for limited slip, I'd rather not because I understand loss of traction in snow is more drastic since both wheels spin. The problem I have is relatively minor, but a nuissance. Hmmm. Maybe a fatter tire on the right rear would compensate

>Petrol

 

Had a set like JCW sells, limited travel in a 4x, however a guy (now friend) asked at the local mini-mart, where did I get them, how do they work, ect. He has a 2wd late 70's lwb, F-100, 300 in 'er, same problem as you. He gave me the full price I paid and in return I helped him install them on his truck, I think he's now my friend for life. He just thinks there great, no more wheel hop unloaded/rainy roads, he claims they actually let him pull out on a steep hill that he could never seem to get traction in the rain, either wheel spin or hop, now has no problems unless he really jumps on it, then just tire spin. Would recommend new u-bolts for the spring/axle if you go this way, not good to take them off then re-use 'em-usually easier to cut them off anyway. I think I paid $11(US) per pair (you should only need two new ones with these bars) for "custom" length with nuts and washers. You can get other traction bars, but cost is much more. I run a Chuck-made traction bar that has rod-ends and goes from a welded bracket on the top of the rear to a crossmember mounted bracket, above the rear driveshaft. For my use, this is the ticket, full wheel travel and very limited spring wrap, that's why I was more than happy to sell the over the spring units (helped that I got what I paid for 'em!). For cost and what you want them to do, I think these will work just fine. I also believe that if you only run one side, the same problem will start to occur on the other side that wouldn't have one mounted as the torque will be more easily transfered to the non-barred side due to greater traction from the side that would have one on. Hope that made some semblance of sense! Chuck

 

Thanks, Sounds like the JCWs will work for me. If I do it I'll do both sides. Price is right. Don't know what Chuck-made is, but seems more for a 4WD. Interesting point about the U-bolts. I had an axle put in and they used the old U-bolts. I asked if we shouldn't get new ones (my feeling on that type of stuff is that they are cheap so while you got em off, replace em), but the mechanic said no, it is OK to re-use them. I probably should loosen them anyway because the small leaf that only comes into play with heavy loads is cocked sideways. So if I get the traction bars I can kill three birds (bars, bolts, and leafs) with one stone.

 

TallPaul, did you install a junkyard swaybar or a new aftermarket one?

Were there the proper holes for it?

I have an XT model truck that came without a sway bar and have thought about putting one on.

Thanks

 

>TallPaul, did you install a junkyard swaybar or a new
>aftermarket one?

I bought a Hellwig aftermarket thru JCWhitney ($115 w/discount coupon plus shipping). I think the aftermarket bars are beefier than the factory bars.

>Were there the proper holes for it?

Depends on whether you have the curved factory cross member up front. Mine does and the holes are already in it. I called direct to Hellwig and they sent me an installation sheet with diagrams. From that I saw installation would not be very difficult and so I ordered the bar. If you don't have the cross member they will send a bracket to take it's place.

>I have an XT model truck that came without a sway bar and
>have thought about putting one on.

My truck (XL) did not have the factory bar either. Not sure how the links attach on the factory bar, but thought someone on here mentioned having to get different spring perches (maybe have the link attach to the perch?). Is so, that is a big job. The Hellwig I got has u-bolts that mount a plate on each I-beam to which the links attach. My biggest problem was getting the correct length on the links. Hellwig sent me two additional sets of bolts (not something you can buy at corner hardware because has 6 tick marks on bolt head, meaning grade ?). Have to have 1" min clearance over steering linkage and then better than 2" or so under frame. I jumped like mad on bumper till it hit on one side then shortened the sleeves on the link bolts a bit more for added clearance. Another swaybar company would only offer front bars on the F150 if it came with a bar (apparently they don't want to go the u-bolt route).

>Thanks

I am pleased with the performance. 20 MPH around city block corners howls the tires, but it walks right around. High speed I seem to feel the slight added underseer, which is fine. Very stable on freeway, much less correction of steering. Had out in high winds yesterday and did feel some buffeting, but pretty stable for all that. I recently put Bilstein shocks on the front which probably contribute to the overall performance. Adding a rear bar would be nice, but I suspect not as significant as the front. P.S. rear bar alone is supposed to be a bad idea.

 

Im suprised no one has suggested the sack of concrete or tractor weights
Chase

1979 F-250 4x4
71 460 Holley650, MSD OFFROAD, L&L Headers
C6-B&M Transpack
Dana HD44Front/60Rear
35 inch Goodyear Implement Tires
4 inch Skyjacker System
Much more to come

 

Yeah! It sure performs good with a half yard of topsoil in the back-- slow but mighty, and no wheel hop!

Now I see another device at JC Whitney, performance traction control springs. They are like a short slightly s-curved leaf that u-bolts on top of your leaf springs between the axle and the front and help prevent twist. Looks like would work pretty good, but wonder if it is good for the spring? Would be a lot easier to install thatn the traction bars (though they are not exactly difficult).

 

Chuck-

>I run a Chuck-made traction bar that has
>rod-ends and goes from a welded bracket on the top of the
>rear to a crossmember mounted bracket, above the rear
>driveshaft. For my use, this is the ticket, full wheel
>travel and very limited spring wrap,


I assume by this name that it was you that made the traction link?

If so, could you tell me the dimensions you used?
Are you getting any bind in the suspension travel?
Any noise from the rod eyes?
Is it keeping your pinion angle OK?

Your leaf spring front section length from center bolt to the center of the front spring eye=
Length of traction link from the centers of pivot to pivot=
Tubing size used=
Rod eye size?
Your attachment point on the axle housing? Was it a welded bracket or did you do some bolt on method?
Did you use an existing crossmember or make one?

I have considered making up a wishbone type link to cure this problem myself. Any wisdom, ideas, or experience you have would be helpful.

Thanks,

-Eric


over!

 

Hi Eric, yeah, the bar I made myself, mostly with trial and lots of error! Started with the wishbone but decided that limited the left droop-right stuffed and vise-versa movement. I started by tacking a bolt on the rear diff, head down so I had the threads to tie a string at different heights. Next I used the appx. length of the front of the spring, and along with the driveshaft angle, although it ended up being steeper than the actual driveshaft angle by a couple of degrees, found a spot to tack a second bolt on an existing crossmember. Painted the string in orange then went out and "played" on a steep hill to try and get the suspension thru all possible movements-side to side as well as loaded and unloaded. Just kept checking the string for sag or tension, the paint will crack and show the white of the string if it gets stretched. After locating the "upper" mount and depth or drop from the crossmember, just made a bolt-on plate with a couple of different hole for front to rear alignment then tacted the mount to the plate. Welded the rear mount to the diff with the brackets from a wishbone locater then put it thru the paces once more to check for binding, ripped the front mount loose under extreme braking, thus, adjusted a tad by shortening the bar, I started with the rod ends better than 3/4 of the way in the tube on both ends. Once I was satisfied with placement, welded the mount to a new/permenant plate which is appx. 6" x 6" and is still bolted to the crossmember. So far we've been off-road with it several times and has worked like a charm on powerline trails, lots of rock climbing and silt/coal dust hill climbing and of course on the street. One thing I've noticed is on loose stone, around a up hill corner that I always had it hopping, it will tend to "lift" the inside corner a little instead of jumping and just spin the tire evenly (would never do this before), this is under power with a True-Trac in the diff. The overall length from center of rod end to rod end is 28 3/16", the rod end at the rear is a 3/4" and is just over 1" above the diff, the crossmember rod end is a 5/8" and is 1 1/4" dropped from the bracket, all these measurements are from the center of the "eyes" in the rods. I'll try to get some of the "experimental" pics in my gallery, please keep in mind that this was just that, so it looks a little cobby or rough-hey, it's what I had to play with!

 

Wow Chuck-

You went thru a lot of experimenting to get it right! All the Detroit boys have formulas and experience but we have to experiment. I will await the pics in your gallery. I am just starting on a major rebuild project so it will be real easy to fab up some of the pieces at that time. We also have a good race shop here in KC for lots of chassis building parts (Midwest Motorsports). I hear that Land Rover uses the same sort of link on their vehicles. My 78 F250 is only a 2WD so I could probably get away with the wishbone by just keeping the relative height of the triangle the same as your link. Several "adjustment" holes sounds like a good idea tho. I have read all kinds of suspension books and have not found any that give any good data on how to set one of these links up. Some say the "active link" length should be 3/8 of the total length of your leaf spring eye to eye. How close is yours to that figure? The "theoretical" figures sometimes are a starting point for experimentation. The pictures of the Land Rover setup looked to be longer than that but it was hard to tell.

Thanks loads for the info!

-Eric




over!

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 08-Apr-02 AT 01:37 AM (EST)]I'd go with a LockRight locker, it's SURE traction. Just beware of the snow issues.