Sam,

It would sure be nice to find an idler or tensioner that you could mount in the area under teh alternator. That would increase your belt contact patch on the crank.

Bobby

 

Morning I just went to the March pulley site and they show a engine with a 2 belt system but no a/c. They have a drawing that shows a/c in place but no belt routing. I wonder if they went to a 3 belt with a/c. Anyway their routing is ugly.

Chuck

Edit:

Using your first belt routing would it be possible to add another tensioner between the w/p and alt (more belt wrap w/p) and a idler between the alt and crank pulley (bobbys suggestion) for more crank wrap.

 

yeh, I got to decide which way to add more contact.

like pic 1 for the W/P, or pic 2 for the crank.

Sam

 

Sam,

I think pic #2 would be optimal. I think that the crank, alt, AC, and PS all need maximum contact area, whereas the water pump (again this is just my own opinion here) has less drag and requires less contact area.

Bobby

edit: is there any chance of getting the techs on the phone at one of the places that you bought the pulleys from? They might have some insight on this

 

for the W/P I was trying to emulate the amount of wrap they use on their kit,
FORD 429-460 C. I.SERPENTINE DRIVE KITS

it comes from the Alt to the top of the W/P, and then straight down to the Crank. That is about the same as the coverage I have (I am using their Alt bracket), I might be able to turn the idler a tiny bit more. I don't have any pics with the actual idler installed position.. but the belt comes almost straight down off the W/P pulley

their routing with the A/C has to be one of two ways
1. they use a double belt W/P pulley (Up over the W/P to the A/C)
or
2. the belt from the crank goes under the idler near the P/S pump, then up.
Otherwise the belt would hit the W/P pulley.

Chuck, one other point I wanted to clear up about the latest test setup.. it definately cleared the P/S pump from being the problem, as that routing didn't change. So the original premise of this topic was P/S, and I am incorrect. so its either the W/P (see my prior discussion about emulating the march routing), or the crank.. which others have suggested..

--- edit ---I am also running the underdrive mustang crank pulley, which decreases the contact area over the larger stock mustang ( and march) pulleys ---

--- edit --- I also ran on the dyno with just the alt, crank and W/P, so the coverage on the W/P was about what I have with the idler. the only different pulley wrap is the crank coverage. I am about 90 degrees, and it looks like with the march or dyno test run it was more like 130 degrees coverage.


Sam

 

uh, I didn't really 'buy' any pulleys.. these are stock Mustang (crank, Alt, W/P) A/C , and the P/S come on the pump (from a mercedes 280)

also, they are not really interested in solving problems not related to their stuff, and I think it unfair to ask them to help me in this case. I am on my own, and I know I am over the cliff edge.

Sam

 

Sam,

Ah, I understand. LOL, I guess its just us then. Hopefully we can come up with something that will help out a bit

Bobby

 

OK I guess my vote is for #2 also. Now the question, is there enough room around the alt mtg brkt to mount a tensioner. Just something else to think about. By the way this is fun on my part. Used to be part of my job (when I was working) to do the preliminary design for some of these belt routings.

Chuck

 

Chuck,

I agree, this is kinda fun on my part also. I know that Sam is probably frutrated as all get out, but I enjoy having some kind of wierd problem to try and solve.

Bobby

 

I'm glad you're having fun.. thats neat about these forums.

there is room front to back to mount a pulley around where I drew them in the pics above.(pic attached now) I need to find/make some kind of bracket to hold the pulley which has more than 1 mounting point.. I am concerned about the belt pressure on just the 2 offset bolts on the alt bracket (they are about 2 inches standoff away from the W/P body). I thought about mounting a spring tensioner here too, if I can find one that goes counter clockwise and has the right thickness and pulley offset (nothing like a few requirements!). On thickness, there is about 1.125 inches from the front edge of the alt bracket to the front edge of the belt.
Sam

 

I'm only frustrated cause I'd rather be drivin the beast!.. I like solving these kinds of problems too.

Sam

 

Sam,

I'm not too familiar with the belt tensioners from Ford, Mopar, or other makes but the GM tensioners are a fairly small and tight package that I think you might be able to adapt. The pulley part of the tensioners can be replaces seperately which gives you a choice of having either a smooth pulley or a grooved one.

It might be time to head to your favorite wrecking yard and see what is out there

Bobby

 

yep.. I've been looking at pics on ebay, deciding on vehicles to look for in the wrecking yard.. got one from a mustang already, its too thick, and goes clockwise.

Sam

 

Sam,

The more I read on this, the more I am convinced the electric water pump is the way to go.

Do you have too much invested in this belt project to go that way? You mentioned it in a previous post and stated:
It would seem the idlers you are planning to use could still go with the electric pump. The belt would go straight across from the alt to the AC comp and still utilize the rest of the setup.


Something to think about.

 

not too much invested, really only the new W/P pulley. everything else would be used.
I don't think I would need the idler near the P/S pump, as this has proven not to be the problem area.

the difficulty with the electric pump is that the housing goes away, and the mounts for the A/C brackets, the Alternator bracket and the P/S bracket go away..