<TABLE width="100%" border=0 itxtvisited="1"><TBODY itxtvisited="1"><TR itxtvisited="1"><TD vAlign=top itxtvisited="1">Let me just open this up by saying this old girl does not like me. I got suckered into working on it, I have to fix 2 so called mechanics mistakes.

THis thing has leaks at both ends of the manifolds, valve covers leak, alleged rebuilt motor that blew a headgasket. Hack mechanic charges $1500 to do the headgasket, truck smokes and runs terribly. It came back with a Qjet on it, instad of the carter that was on it. The guy essentially ripped him off, he was taken to court, got off scott free. (He was not licensed or insured to do mechanicing work.) I did a compression check, the numbers were miserable. Hot, the highest was 125, lowest was 100, average was 110. I was expecting better for an alleged high performance motor. (the guy is old, might have his facts backwards, he inhereted the truck from his brother) On a dead cold compression check, the numbers were 60-80# dry, 80-100 wet. I did a dry cold check on my 460 in the motor home with 92K on it and got 115-125# cold.

This is one of the first things that happened to me once I started doing tuneup stuff on the truck, after I gave up on making the turd run correctly as it sat.



I put on new plug wires because the old ones were burned by the headers and poor routing. I did not like the way the old ones were routed, so I yanked them all off, and started from scratch. I did not pay close attention, did not notice that the last novice mechanic who put the dizzy in, was too lazy to set it correctly, so he moved the wires one position instead of doing it right. After a few failed starts, I remebered that they were wrong, moved them, nothing happening still. I am running the throttle, and remote starter (from under the hood) and there is a loud boom, and a flash and burned hair smell. I bout fall off my stand to get away from the fire, my vision returns, I see that I am not on fire. I get in the cab, the backfire seemed to have cleared the flooded condition, the truck started.

I pull the spark plugs to see how poorly the engine is running, this little beauty caught my eye.



Do you rekon this is the piston hitting the top of the head, or the valve is hitting it.

Another thing that caught my attention is the rocker arm assembly



I dont think it is stock for this year truck. I looked in the 75 service manual, and the truck Haynes and Chilton manuals, see no notice on how to adjust, or any mention of any adjustability. The lifters are definatley hydraulic, they bleed down after 2 seconds or so, and the valve closes.

So, here are my questions.
1. The book says there is no adustability, only with .060 longer and shorter pushrods. This motor clearly has an adjustable rocker arm assembly. Will the hydrualic lifter make up for any mal-adjustment? The engine sounds like it has either major piston slap, or valve train noise. What years did this rocker arm setup come from? The if the vavles are misadjusted, will the lifters hold the valves open once they pump up?

2. After the motor was overheated, the truck now smokes like a freight train out of both sides of the exhaust (White). The sides of the cylinder walls do not look fresh, I see no cross hatching. Is it possible that the rings have mananged to glaze the side of the cylinder walls, and now the rings are not doing their job? There is alot of metal flake in the oil. Blowby is not too excessive with the PCV hooked up, but without it, it is pretty good.

3. Time to take the motor apart, re-ring it, and freshen up the fresh heads?

4. The engine will only pull 12-13 inches of vacuum, and it dips 1-2" or so. I have checked for vacuum leaks, found none except the carb in a couple of spots. I have adjusted the timing back to 10*, and set the dwell from .013 to factory .017, put in a higher heat range plug, and closed the gap back to .035. Do you suppose the smoking might be because there is an internal manifold vacuum leak? I pulled individual wires to see if the smoking is limited to one cylinder, it did not seem to help. The carb is a Qjet by the way.

Keep in mind this truck is not mine. The owner is on a fixed income, and cannot afford to put a billion dollars into a truck he can only get $1500 for. He already has $1900 into it from botched repairs from two other hack mechanics. I have to keep the cost down. If it was my truck, I would take the motor apart, re-ring it and have the valves redone, but I need a backyard dirty used car salesman mechanic dirty trick to get this thing to stop smoking. I got it to at least be driveable again, but the smoking has to stop.

ideas, comments?

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Just a quick note on the rockers. They are Crane ductile adjustables. I have the same ones. And correct not original to the truck. Same thing with the aluminum spacers.

BTW I lost a beard the same way many moons ago.

As for the rest of it...ouch. But yer really nice for helpin this guy out. That sure looks like a busted up oil ring I see there.

 

The original FE valve covers have a flange in the middle for this:

B8Q12297A .. Separator-Ignition Wires / Available from Ford

MSRP: $1.58 / FTEpartsguy.com price: $1.14

This plastic separator slips over the flange, the 4 plug wires lock into place.

This separator has been used on virtually every Ford V8 from 1958 thru today.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
B6A12297A .. Separator-Ignition Wires

This type is universal, can be used anywhere with 4 wires, or if snapped in two, with two wires.

This separator has been around since 1956, first used on Y blocks.

MSRP: $1.32 / FTEpartsguy.com price: $0.95

 

How is the oil ring going to get past two compression rings and the piston, and still build up any kind of compression?

 

I don't know as the pic is not really clear to see exactly what it is. Just a guess as to what it could be and looks like a broken piece of ring. Can you fish it out and see what it is?

 

I havent tried doing anything of that nature to it. I am really tempted to tear the heads off of the engine, and yank the pan, hone it, new rings, etc etc, so I know its fixed right. The owner wants it fixed right as well, however I dont want to see him upside down $$ wise, in a truck he wants to sell. By the time he gets my bill, and sells the truck, he might as well of just gave me the truck. Thats why I have to fix er on the cheap cheap cheap.

 

At this point that's a good approach. I'd investigate a bit further and get some ideas what needs to be done. Even tho he's on a budget he'll have to decide what he wants to do. Those Crane iron rockers alone sell for close to $275 new. And they look pretty good. But if you can remove the heads and inspect things that's the way to go at this point. Just tell him up front there are no guaranties at this point until you look inside. Then he'll have to decide what he can afford to do. Hopefully it's not that bad. Good luck and do keep us posted!!!

 

Give the owner a written estimate, ask for some "seed" money up front.

Otherwise, you could get stiffed, end up in small claims court trying to get paid for your out of pocket expenses.

Since this is CA...you'll prolly lose.

The CA Bureau of Auto Repair frowns on shade tree mechanics, the courts don't like them either.

Try lien selling a vehicle without a mechanics license...not a fun experience.

Rule of thumb: Never work on friends vehicles. No matter what you do to save them a buck...they'll find something to b!tch about.

 

If he is going to sell the truck, you might look for a running FE
for $150.00 or so and keep that one as part payment if you want.

my 2 pennys


John

 

finding 390s around here are tough, been extinct for a very long time. The last junkyard in existance in the county sells them for $800.

I already warned the customer that the motor is fried after I did the compression test. he said "just do the best you can with it." He wanted me to tear into the motor, I warned him that it would put him further upside down on the truck.

The first guy the owner took the truck to, was a tow truck driver he knew. He is the guy who did the headgasket for $1500, used the cork end seals that should be thrown away. Both end gaskets squeezed out of course, I had to fix that.... THe owner called the BAR, they did their investigation, said the unlicensed and uninsured mechanic/tow truck driver was willing to give him $400 back. The BAR said if he wanted any more back, he would have to take him to small claims court. His day in court came, you would have sworn the mechanic was the judges son. The truck owner walked away with nothing. This is after the mechanic stole the carb that came on the truck, put on a quadrajet that barely allowed the truck to run, the engine smoked extremly bad now, and leaked oil like a seive. It ran terribly, backfired thru the carb, and shot flames out the tailpipe. Not bad for $1500 and three months worth of time.

Another guy (who I knew) put on another Qjet carb, claimed it was factory ford, buggered up a few other things and charged him $350 for his time, and a pick and pull carburator. He found other things wrong, bothced wiring, a chunk missing off of the block, oil and vacuum leaks, etc. He did not finish the job, which was to get the truck running like a swiss time piece. the truck still would not start easily, and had a few things I was not happy with, like vacuum ports on the carb, plugged by plugging the hose into another port. The owner knew that I knew this guy, called me to try and get ahold of him to "finish" the job. etc etc my turn to work on the truck, here were a few things I immediatley found.

The spark plug gap was way too far open(.015), and the dwell gap was set .005 too close. Initial timing was set at 17*. Carb was cranked up so it would run, once warm, would idle at 1800 RPM, distributor giving the engine full advance. I adjusted all of that, new (hotter) plugs, at least now it will run at 650 RPM in drive, without stalling. I told the owner that I cant particularly blame my aquaintence for the first guys messups, but I was upset that the guy would not communicate with him.

 

The guy wants the truck fixed and sold, right?

So does he really care if you get a replacement engine and it's a 360, or even a 352?

How many of those 800 buck 390's are really 390's?

Most of the current crop of peeps out there have never even heard of a 360 engine.

Can you tell a 360 (or 352) from a 390 by looking at it? I can't.

No truck 390 had a 4V factory installed till 1974, no 360's ever came with 4V's.

I'll bet y'all didn't know this: The RottenChester QuadraJet was FACTORY installed on some 1970/71 429CJ engines.

Want the carb part numbers?

DOOZ-9510-A / DOOZ-9510-B / DOOZ-9510-E / DOOZ-9510-F
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike's Automotive up in Williams has scads of 390 engines.

Yeah I know it's 200+ miles north (of you, it's a lot further for me), but at least when you get there, you'll find a few dozen.

Mike builds destruction derby cars, has dozens upon dozens of 1960/71 Ford/Merc cars.

 

Wow, that sucks! There are not enough words to describe this shade-tree's sense of outrage.

Back to topic: I think the valves are hitting, or close to it. With the piston that close to the top, you won't see anything outside of the combustion chamber. I'd try running through the valve lash again. Then I'd try the shade-tree leak down test: Piston at the top of it's dwell, valves closed, compressed air on the cylinder, see where the air comes out.



I'm going to suggest the worst for the smoke problem: The rings are toast. I don't remember seeing the dry/wet numbers more than ten pounds different on a good engine. If others have different experience, I defer on what I "remember".

The sparkles in the oil? No way to put those back.

Is this Qjet a spread bore carb? Every FE I've worked on had 2V or square bore intakes.

 

I knew a Qjet was a factor carb for that engine, but this was def. a GM part number. Its an offy 360 manifold, with both patterns, square bore and spread bore.

Ya, I know all about 360s, 352s, all looking like a 390. Hell, the junkyard owner sold his 360 out of his 4x4 parts truck for $800. I always remind him that the 4x4s were always 360s unless somebody did something to them. He did once sell a 428 as a 390, the new owner was very pleased at his mistake. Still, an engine swap is going to cost him another $400+ for it to happen.

 

T-Beavis, if the truck is just going to be sold anyway....heres what I'd try first if it was my problem. Get yourself a sparkplug airchuck and a valve spring compressor, and put new umbrella seals on all of the stems. Then when you put the rockers back on, drop the cut off tips of an old small block pushrod ( about 3/4 inches ) into the oil hole that feeds the rockershaft assembly. Then put the rockershafts back on and adjust the rockers 1/2 turn past contact. Fill the crankcase with 50 wt oil and one bottle of motor honey. Then play with the ignition timing and carb to get it to run as best as you can.



It won't be the best, but if it smokes less that helps, right ? And the oil restriction and stem seals are cheap. The offy intake is awful, and the Qjet is wrong, but neither is a showstopper. And be as nice as you can to the old guy. It sounds like he has been screwed over big time. DinosaurFan

 

The truck has new silicone umbrella seals already. I drove it today, once it warmed up, the smoke significantly lessened. It still had no power, and it backfired thru the carb, and stalled once or twice when it backfired. A 30 wt oil change and the miracle smoke stop bottle are already in the works.