Glad I am not the only one who thinks that. I did believe the state would take it over first then when they couldn't handle it the fed's would take it over but that may be accelerated now. I am a bit curious why Ford doesn't just tell the union to shove it and move to a right to work state, just as the "foreign" companies have down south.

Some posts back someone thought Dodge's trucks weren't up to par with Ford and GM's. Around here if you want a work truck you buy a Ford or a Dodge. The rich people who live in town and have no need for a truck buy the chevy's. Go to any auction or any ranch and you will see 70-90% Fords and the rest will be Dodges with very few Chevy's mixed in.

I think Cerberus wanted the rest of GMAC and that is why merger talks were going on, GM wouldn't budge and the talks fell through.

 

It sucks to see any company in hard times especially another american one. Hope it pulls through because the more competition, better choices for us.. Keeps everyone on their toes to make better cars.

 

this country is GREAT at making new 70 year olds. In fact, we got a new crop going under the name of 'baby boomers'.

 

Is today's 70 year old, who probably bought domestic most of his life & is now buying a Buick, going to be replaced by tomorrows 70 year olds who have been buying Toyotas and Hondas all their lives? Who do you think the Toyota Avalon is aimed at? I can't even get my wife to look at a Buick ad, let alone trundle off to the dealership. BTW we actually had an Olds Minivan and it served us well. But that Chevy dealer that Numberdummy mentioned, who had also been an Olds dealer, insulted my wife, so no buy 'em there, even if I did want a chev, which I dasn't.

 

Avalon vs LaCrosse or Lucerne. No comparison.

The LaCrosse is nothing more than a reskinned 1996 Regal (compare the roof lines, they are identical).

The Lucerne has the same uni-body structure as the discontinued Olds Aurora and Buick Park Avenue. That uni-body also dates back to the 1990's.

The Lucerne has no power adjustable pedals or telescopic steering wheel available, the 6 banger is the ancient 3.8 OHV.

The Avalon has both the telescopic wheel and the power pedals as standard equipment, the V6 is a 3.5 DOHC.

The Avalon is basically the same car as the 66 grand Lexus 460. The only real dif is, you can't get a V8 in an Avalon.

IMO, no baby boomer in their right mind would buy a LaCrosse or Lucerne over an Avalon.

btw: Buicks have the worst resale value of any car sold in the US. A 3 year old Buick is worth less than 35% of its original MSRP.

I've never owned a Toyota anything, but my wife leased a new '99 Avalon XL for 3 years.

After 40 years of driving mostly Fords, and the occasional Oldsmopile, I was totally stunned on how good a car that Avalon was.

 

i owned a tacoma, and have nothing but very good things to say about them.

i did drive a lacrosse (weekend renter) i was impressed by the vehicle

is gm still running the 3800 series 2 engine? i always thought that was a great engine

 

while I think most of your comments on the options available are wrong I need to ask regarding the above:

how is being equipped with the #1 (sometimes #2) engine ever made a bad thing?

 

Wrong? Uh huh...where's your proof that I'm wrong? You cannot even come up with proof on all the comments you make!

Not only did I review the Lucerne at the last two LA Auto Shows, but I test drove one after the first show ended at the Buick/Pontiac/GMC dealer in Whittier CA.

I know the Lucerne is not available with power pedals, or a telescopic wheel even as an option.

Not only was I told that by a Buick rep at the LA Auto Show, but the dealer (want the name and phone number?) told me the same thing.

At 6-5, 345...I need both.

I've been to every LA Auto Show since 1951, and since the mid 1960's have test driven at least 30 new cars/trucks a year.

I have over 2,000 books in my library on cars/trucks and have read them all. When I type something, I can cite sources.

You on the other hand...

Continue to make outlandish statements, like:

Ford going out of business by December 2008...

That 1980/83 F100's were available with 4WD....

That GMC and SAAB are going away for 2009.....

But when peeps ask you for sources to back up these statements, you can't come up with chit!

When I asked your for the source of that "Ford going out of business" statement, you could only say something about it being on Bloomberg and told me to "GOOGLE IT."

 

oh, you mean like 2008 Lucerne options:

Mebbe something else at the auto show grabbed your attention? ;-)

LaCrosse roof line the same as a 96 regal? Methinks you have never seen a 96 regal. (psst: regal was a W platform, the 96 was gen3. LaCrosse replaced the regal quite a few years and a complete generation later with a completely revised platform known internally as MS2000. So not only is it not on the same paltform as the 96 regal, its not even on the same platform as the LAST regal. (this would be an important consideration in order to have the 'same roofline')

Lucerne engines? The L26 (named 10 best engine by ward) was available, so is a V8 and a new v6 derived from the 660 project.

Given that the V8 is the engine making the autoshow, something REALLY musta taken your attention to miss all those cams and extry cylinders - just sayin`

Well thats nice and I see no reason to disbelieve you, however you muffed the Lucerne, the Lacrosse and god knows what else.

When I make a statement, you are ALWAYS allowed to quote me. That is of course, provided you quote me. Only 1 of those 3 statements is even partially correct to what I actually typed (a neccessary component to quoting me)

that would be the middle statement. If was *you* who stated the 80-83 F100 was available in 4x4 in Canada, Mexico and Austrailia. I said it was avail in the US. IT was you and at least one other person who told me they are being imported by wetbacks. Hey wait, that WAS you who said that.

hmmmm.

I dont mean to pick on you, but you're sorta outta control...

 

Oh yeah, the platform for the Lucern. dates back to 2005. well ok, it was closer than say 1800 vs 1700

 

I just heard on the news that toyota, honda and dutsun sales were also down by around 30%, so there not imune from a bad economy. How did you like that datsan, thats baby boomer talk ha ha.

 

What I said about 1980/83 F100's was that they were only available with 2WD in the US and Canada. I have no klew whether 1980/83 F100's were available elsewhere with 4WD as I have no sources for that info.

I stated that with 10-15 million illegals (I did not and would not use the term wetbacks) in the US, if these trucks were available south of the US border with 4WD, then it's possible some found their way into the US that way.

I also made reference to grey market vehicles, which refers to new vehicles imported into the US by individuals that are not sold here. The only vehicles I personally know that fit the criteria are Mexican made VW (old style) Beetles and several Mercedes-Benzes only sold in Europe.

The roofline on the LaCrosse is identical to the 2000 Olds Intrigue I used to own. I know this same roofline was used on Regals and Grand Prix.

The Lucerne when introduced was not available with either power pedals or telescopic wheel. If a telescopic wheel was added for 2008, that's news to me. There is no mention of it on the window sticker under standard features.

 

No, you said the converse of that statement. suffice to say, F100 4x4s in the target years exists. Whether or not they were built in the US for the US market is irrelevant - they exist. built by ford. with replacement parts available.

If you recall the OP - he was not asking IF they existed, he was asking for the spec sheet on the truck he had already seen, tasted, touched and smelled. As I pointed out, the 'for sale' ads in Oz are FULL of them.

but,

(in my best cop voice)

that is not why I pulled you over sir.

You said, and I quote:

In a larger post. Ignoring the obvious errors (and I said I was doing just that) I responded, and I quote:

the statement seems to have gone over your head like a 747 bound for brazil so let me state another way:

An OP comes here and states: I would buy this truck I saw, but it had that 4.9L 300inch straight six in it....

Just about every member of FTE would reply somewhere on the lines of: "are you crazy, why that is the best engine Ford ever made..."

and they would be right.

See the irony yet? No? Going further:

If the 300 six was fords best engine (and we all think it was) it was never ranked as one of the top 10 for the 20th century. the 3800 *WAS*, and going further, the 3800 ranks #1 or #2 along side the SBC. This is exhaulted company, so I ask, how is being equipped with that powerplant a bad thing? Its old? So are you. GM took 10 years to replace that engine with the 660 variants. Ford took 10 seconds to replace the 300 and has been paying warranty claims and engineering redesign efforts since. Haste, often does make waste.

So if I ever decide to sit in a class called 'reality 101' I will be in good company 'cuz every member of the engineering and mgmt team for Toyota will be in there as well. They SPECIFICALLY pay attention to publications from JD powers and Wards (I never mentioned Edmunds, so I dunno why you inferred that I did) Toyota, as you absolutely must know, what being in the biz for all those decades, subscribes to Dr W Edward Demings philosophy. Wards and JD Powers (and perhaps others, I dunno) do as well and tailor thier survey criteria to accurately express said quality. Neither survey company publishes a magazine (therefore accepts no advertising) but both survey companys allow their articles to be published IN a magazine. Perhaps you have them confused with Car and Driver? OR Motor Trend?


Again, the irony meter pegs. The term 'wetback' originates from the same area of the US as do you. It was meant to poke fun at the inference that illegal aliens are not crossing the border illegally by foot (thus earning the original term) but rather by 4x4 F100. Further inspection reveals we need a new term: wet beds, to describe those trucks?

Again with this stuff. I have already shown which platforms the target car derives from. you moved the goal posts a little by adding the Intrigue and GP (both of which are yet again entirely different), perhaps one of the 2000 books can cite a source? IIRC (and I do) a few years back Car and Driver ran an article detailing how 20 some US and European and Japanse cars had SIMILAR body styles such that a strict side view would be impossible to tell them apart. Similar and IDENTICAL are two different words in my dictionary. (IIRC and I do, the L/N platformed Olds Cutlass GLS was NEARLY identical to the Nissam Maxxima from all angles, save rear taillights)

this may be true, but the last few auto shows you attended and drove at and got phone numbers of people from should have corrected that. Im not going to apologize for having more up to date information.

 

I treid to quote something but it erases the quote, nonetheless.

I said clearly (and it can be researched) that by end of 4q2008, or by the statement of 4Q earnings at the latest, Ford will be bankrupt. I pointed you to industry publications that made the same statements. The fact you do not want to read them is not my problem.

since I have made that statement, Ford has been downgraded again, the stock price has tanked and the SecTreas has said 'no soup for you!' in terms of bailout money. AND, the largest private holder of Ford stock has bailed, at a tremendous loss to himself. He also happens to be the richest man alive and the largest private stock holder alive. Im betting these facts did not come about 'cuz he is an idiot.

given that like you, I am not an investment broker, and that like you, I am not a player in the market, and like you, I am not a member of the FoMoCo management team, and like you, I must rely on info from people who ARE.....are the recent occurances proving or disproving my assertions?

Same goes for GM. Smart money last week said GMC truck and Saab get dumped this week and that Chrysler is picked apart by GM. then on Friday the same SecTreas said 'not a dime until after the election'

Once again I seem to be more in tune, but thats right, I google up financial pages and the like. What would THEY know? Its not like they have 2000 parts books to cite or anything like that.

 

ding. ding. thats the start of round 4 of this heavyweight title fight