I would like to see Rams and/or ChryCo survive in some form, but as a student of the autobiz and its history, I just don't see that happening.

Mahindra of India has expressed interest in Jeep, which as you may or may not know, is the most 'traveled' brand in the history of the autobiz.

The Jeep was "invented" by the American Bantam Co in 1940, but they didn't have the facilities to build them.

******-Overland (W-O) then acquired Jeep. Henry J. Kaiser bought W-O in 1953 forming Kaiser-Jeep.

Kaiser-Jeep was later sold to AMC, which was later bought out by French automaker Renault, who after running AMC into the ground, sold Jeep to the Chrysler Corporation.

Chrysler was purchased by Daimler-Benz, forming Daimler-Chrysler (DC).

Cerberus bought 80.1% of the Chrysler Division from DC, who is now known as Daimler AG.

Daimler AG still owns 19.1% of ChryCo.

 

GMC truck brand is not going anywhere if it is gone then GM is gone. The GMC brand for at least the light duty GMC trucks is for the GM dealerships that do not have the Chevrolet brand partnered with them. Gives them the ability to sell trucks and kept the foot traffic in the non Chevrolet dealerships.

 

I don't know, I've heard rumblings of CMC demise as well.

 

> Jeep, I can see. Anything else made by ChryCo...forget it.

I agree 100%. Toyota, Ford, and GM already have developed truck lines in the USA and everyone else has better selling cars, most of them loss leaders, so why would anyone want Chrysler. More loss leaders?

It is not like anything that actually goes into their vehicles is actually made by them. The hottest truck items, their diesels and manual transmissions are made by other people.

> Chrysler needs to die

They have been ever since they decided to put ceramic ballast resistors on the fenders ;-)

Some might say they haven't had a good solid reliable car since the AMC Rambler wagon, painted pink of course.

 

Its a money saving issue - the GMC trucks are produced side by side with the chevy trucks the only difference being the emblem. but the $$$ gm must spend to maintain the brand is staggering for a 'division' that sells 1/3 that of chevy truck. I see all gm trucks being single branded and sold thru the chevy management/dealership structure - thats just my personal take on it, but the news of the demise is not my idea - its all over trade publications and wall street and supposedly this week is an announcement.

and besides: how hard will it be for a pontiac GMC truck dealership to receive the same new trucks with different emblems - its not like the service bays or the literature need to change much except for the sign...

 

all american automakers are in trouble anyways, majority of folks in the us prefer to buy a foreign product, and thats not going to change anytime soon.......there was a poll about 6 months ago, cant remember where, but it asked your last purchase,and preference and it was like 52-55% said foreign

foreign automakers arnt posting horrendous numbers like ford,and gm

aaa said gas will start to rise in january or so, and that only favors foreign automakers more, and times have already been killing our co's

 

Foreign automakers haven't depended on full sized pickup and SUV sales for most of their profit.

Since 1991, Ford, GM and ChryCo have really been truck manufacturers, while the foreign outfits have been car manufacturers.

When gas hit 3 bucks a gallon in 2005, peeps began buying 1000's of econoboxes from the foreign outfits.

This has had a severe impact on Ford/GM/ChryCo who all but abandoned the car market years ago.

Now these 3 US companies have been caught flatfooted, because they have little in the way of econo boxes to compete with.

I'd like to see the results of that poll in print, simply because the US automakers vehicles are still (barely) outselling foreign vehicles in the US.

Please define "foreign product."

Don't forget that Toyota, Honda, Nissan, VW, Mercedes, Hyundai, Kia and BMW are considered US companies (by some) because they all have assembly plants in the US.

Is the Toyota Matrix that is built in the joint GM/Toyota NUMMI factory in Fremont CA, or a Toyota Camry that is built in Indiana considered foreign products...or not?

 

AP/AOL Autos Poll Finds U.S. Car Owners Consider Foreign Cars as Higher-Quality, - AutoSpies Auto News

not the exact poll i was looking for but has same results as to the one i polled on myself........58% beleive that foreign produced vehicles were superior to US made vehicles.......and certainly the repeated losses made by ford and gm over the last few years reflects what people think

i want to say that i polled on popular mechanics, or consumer reports but i honestly cant remember





ford one of the first companies to release its numbers just now, these numbers along with gm's are on track for a 25 year low....also toyota may pass gm on US sales....that barley slim lead may be gone
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27516318/

 

Just curious, what's your daily driver?

Mine is a Fusion hecho en Hermosillo, Mexico.

"She, who must be obeyed" just leased an Edge that's made in Ontario, Canada.

Zuit alors!

 

Someone said that GMC was needed in order for Buick and Pontiac dealers to have trucks to sell. First, Buick and Pontiac need to go away, too. Second, are there separate, but identical non-Dodge trucks to sell at Chrysler stores or rebadged F-series to sell at LM dealerships?

One possibility for the Dodge Ram is to sell that part off to Nissan/Renault so it can replace the Titan. Maybe it could be built at a profit if that part of the operation is scaled down to 100k units/yr or so, maybe. Jeep is going to be sold to someone, hopefully not GM. The Challenger is such a niche product, and badly timed that it will die along with the rest of the car lines. They make no passenger cars that I would even think of buying.

Jim

 

Rebadged F150 = Lincoln Mark LT, now discontinued.

Nissan has made a deal with ChryCo.

Nissan is building a small car for Dodge, Dodge will soon be building Titans based on Rams (in Mexico).

The Ram based Titan will be reskinned, and as I have read, will retain its DOHC V8 and 5 speed auto overdrive transmission.

This is more than just badge engineering, as the Lincoln Mark LT was almost identical to an F150, as the GMC is to a Chevy.

I doubt you'll see any Chevy trucks sold in Buick-Pontiac-GMC dealerships.

These dealers signed a franchise agreement to sell GMC's, and you can bet your bottom dollar that Chevrolet dealers will scream bloody murder, if Chevy's start showing up at GMC dealerships.

In my part of town, we have TWO GMC/Pontiac/Buick dealerships within 5 miles of each other (one, till recently, was an Olds dealer), THREE Chevrolet dealers, all within this same distance.

The three local Chevy dealers, one of the local GMC/Pontiac/Buick dealerships are all owned by the same person, who also owns 3 more Chevy dealers within 20 miles of here.

The same person also sells Subarus, Honda's and other assorted cars.

Would this mega-dealer stand for GMC/Pontiac/Buick dealers to start selling Chevy's, even tho he has one a these franchises? No way.

You prolly know who this is, as some of the stores have a giant Panda on the roof, their ads say: "the Panda knows" (what the hell that means, I dunno).

Auto history trivia: This person's father was Paul G. Hoffman, who was once the West Coast Studebaker Distributor and was also the president of the Studebaker Corporation at one time.

He also held a cabinet position in the Eisenhower Administration (don't recall which one).

 

The separate, but identical Dodge is the Sterling Bullet. It's a 1 ton and up chassis/cab at this point, but they couls easily make it a pickup line.

The reason our "Big 3" put the car business ont the back burner years ago was CAFE/EPA regs. The regulations were aimed primarily at cars for increases in fuel mileage and decreases in emissions. As most of you know, the cars of the late 70s and early 80s were miserable, under powered and problem laden due to all the patrs/pieces necessary to maintain compliance. Factor that in with the domestic manufactures having to oblige the UAW by keeping outdated plants running, building cars that had to be engineered to pass those regulations.

Now, the foreign competitors are able to rush in with cars 9/10s ready to enter our market so it was easy to make them fit our regulations. The time was ripe since the US just got over the first so called gas crisis.

Fast forward to the mid 80s. The Big 3 see a loop hole in "trucks". Emissions and CAFE standars are much lower. The tooling is in place and build/development cost is cheap. Gas has stabilized and is almost cheap again. Plus Americans like the V8, rear drive set up. The Big 3 begin to dress up utility vehicles as luxury cars. Jeep takes the Wagoneer and turns it into the Grand Wagoneer complete with power everything, leather, even a moonroof option. GM, still using the R series circa 1973 Suburban, dreeses theirs up too and begins to work on an updated replacement. Ford begins work on what would be the Explorer. So the Big 3 are feverishly developing trucks as sales begin to go through the roof. Pick up sales skyrocket too as more extended cabs start to be offered. Pickups also saw the benefits of the work that went into making SUVs more appealing to the masses. The economy isnt bad, people are buying trucks and SUV in record numbers.

Factor in a tax loop hole for a deduction on trucks for business taxes and evey one running a home business is buying a truck to write off. The loop hole changes to trucks over 6600 GVWR and the next thing you know, real easte agents and wedding planners are driving around in Excursions and H2s. Gas was cheap and it was a write off, Why not?

Then the Big 3 get caught napping when the last oil crisis pops up. They more than likely knew this crisis wouldn't last with silly offers like guaranteed $3 gas for 3 years. But the car buying public jumped ship like never before. The big 3 didn't have much in the way of quality small cars, so buyers flocked elswhere. Now is a buyer used to driving a fully decked out Expedtion/Yukon etc going to buy a car that's in every rental fleet across the nation? The Big 3 have been dumping their inferior crap, built mostly to pass CAFE fleet standards, on the rental companies for years. Face it, how many of you actually want to buy and own a brand new Cobalt/Neon/Focus when they can be had for almost nothing after a year in a rental fleet? That drives the value of all of them down. Relatively few forein cars are sold to rental fleets.

Ford is the only "domestic" manfacturer that started taking the mid price car business seriously, with it's Fusion/Milan/MKZ line. These are highly rated by reviewers. Too bad they're not US built and engineered. Based on Mazdas (which Ford has a 33% stake in) and built in Mexico (UAW anyone?) they are nice cars, but not true Fords. BTW we own an 06 Fusion, nice car.

Unless govermental agengies (EPA/NHTSA) ease up on regulating the auto industry, it is doomed.

 

i have a 06 ford ranger, only vehicle i own, bought new in august 06 and it has 53000 miles on it now, engine and tranny assembled in mehico

 

I dunno if the big 3 were caught napping, as the ads point out, GM sells more DISTINCT models that get 30mpg or more than toyota, honda and nissan COMBINED. Its the consumer who until very recently absolutely refused to buy an american car. (to a lesser extent ANY car - IIRC truck/suvs hit 58% of the market. If the american consumer could be trusted to have a brain - this would have never happened. But projecting apparent pee-pee size became more important than common sense and the future.

Now you have perhaps the highest quality/best value car on the planet ( the new 'bu ) sorta snuck up on everyone (and the 50% recent jump in sales means the secret is getting out)

Like olds, I would be dismayed to see buick go - it sells every vehicle it makes with almost no advertising and almost no incentives - its market is not going away - albeit a small one. And it typically is the quality leader so sayeth JD powers, for the american segment

and lets not forget, GMs market share of the US market is the largest by a slim margin. It is not a trivial amount and there are a lot of competitors. You can still make the case that the UAW and the pension/medical requirements are strangling them. (that actually IS a case for bankruptcy - by declaring they can shed the annuity for bennies, putting it on the feds, then emerge nearly unionless.

 

Buick's market isn't going away? Well it is...slowly by attrition.

The average age of a Buick owner is 70 years old.

Have you any sales figures on how many of these new Malibu's (and Impala's) have been sold to rental car fleets?

Being that the figure of 19,000 Malibu's came along at new vehicle introduction time, when rental car companies buy most of their new cars, how many were Malibu's?

btw: Anyone that trusts any of these so-called initial quality, or reliability surveys, hyped by the same ppl that take automakers advertising dollars, needs to take a course in Reality 101.