I would like to buy American made if I can get it and if the quality is there. I won't buy it if whatever it is will fall apart in a week. We are losing some jobs to other countries because of a few issues. One is price. We can't compete with a third world country who pays spit for wages. But it is more than wages. There are huge government regulations on everything. My friend works for a company that sells canned food to the government. There are more rules about the pallet it is shipped on than the food. And if the company has union employees there is another pile of rules. The guy who started the business is no longer on top. The tail is wagging the dog. So he says I don't need all the problems. I can have it done in a foreign country cheaper and I don't have to put up with all the regulations and stupid rules.

I ride a Harley, an old one. I could get a better bike for a lot less with no problems, but it would be an import. When I ride I always have a big american flag flying on the bike. It is 3 x 5. In my mind I have trouble riding a honda etc. with an american flag on it. So I keep riding my old Harley and keep fixing it. I am not sure what we produce that another country can't do cheaper.

We stopped having babies so we don't have enough workforce now either. So others are filling the gaps. What are we going to be, say 10-20 years from now?

 

So true on your comments.

 

Check on who is buying the equipment at auction. The Chinese are and they are taking it to their country and using it to undercut us even more. And yes I agree with Ken about the way the government has killed off American production with strangling taxes. We are about to experience a blow to the economy unlike anything in history.

 

Actually, much of auctioned manufacturing equipment is going to South American and thrid world countries. As is reconditioned / used hi-tech and communications equipment.

 

"japan attacked us in 1941. China could attack us today."

If we mind our own business and quit sticking our nose in Asia, that won't happen. The US should have continued selling Japan metal and oil, and gotten out of the way. The Japanese would have eliminated any future Chinese problems by eliminating China (no ChiComs, no problem!) and would have been so busy consolidating their conquests in Asia they'd never need to bother with the US. BTW we were their ALLY in WWI.

The US should care about AMERICANS, and not care when foreigners slaughter each other. Cut deals with the winner and be done with it. We are still stuck spending billions defending Japan and Korea, who do not serve us.

 

Yeah, that kind of thinking is what got us attacked in 41 when we were isolationist. We learned, what happens in the rest of the world does come home to roost. Where would be if Hitler or Russia had gone on checked?

 

> The US should have continued selling Japan metal and oil, and gotten out of the way.

That sounds like it might have been a good idea until you watch films of where the Japanese toss Chinese babies up in the air and bayonet them on the way down. Nothing like a contest to see who can stick the most babies on the end of a pole.

One of the problems with ignoring your neighbor's plead for help when they are being robbed, raped, tortured, and slaughtered is when the bad guys are done with your neighbors, then they come for you.

So, do you REALLY think we should do business with people that rape and torture children in front of parents, while filming it, and use the tape as a threat and blackmail. Or that kill people by the 100s or 1000s by feeding them through chippers. Or abduct virgins from weddings, rape them, and then feed them to tigers in their zoos?

 

Unfortunately the reality is that the USA doesn't do what's in its ethical and moral interests though that's a great excuse it uses for deploying its military (it appeals to people's self-righteous feelings of "hey we have God on our side, they don't"). Russia killed more of its own people than Hitler did. Anyone recall the killing fields of Cambodia? Why didn't we stop the atrocities there, and in many other places?

61 million people killed by the USSR and we didn't stop them.
35 million people killed by China and we didn't stop them.
2 million people killed in Cambodia. Guess who stopped that? Not us! The North Vietnamese did!
Millions killed in North Korea (there aren't hard numbers since the country is so closed). I don't see us marching in there. Not much oil in N. Korea!


I'm all for stopping atrocities, but lets not kid ourselves about US motivations... the US goes in only when its financial, political or strategic interests are at stake, not because of warm moral fuzzies, unless its a *very* minor place where the commitment is minimal (such as Haiti) and then its often half-hearted. We went into Iraq for strategic and global political reasons, not humanitarian interests, and though I support the war effort and applaud the humanitarian cause as a major positive benefit I also believe that's not why we went in. The humanitarian "excuse" wasn't used until after we went in and no major caches of WMDs were found (though some have been found). The original excuse for going in was WMDs, the ties to terrorists and the failure to comply with UN resolutions. The reason I believe is establishing a democratic oasis, securing oil resources, and taking the war to the Islamic terrorists rather then they bringing it to us - good political and strategic reasons. We aren't building schools, water plants and infrastructure because we love them, want to save their souls and show them how nice we are. We're doing it because winning the hearts and minds of people has proven itself to work a lot better and be much cheaper than than squashing people under your thumb.

Its the same thing with WWII. Our entering the war had very little to do with Japan killing people in China and the Philippines. Entering the war was certainly good politically, it was an exceptionally worthy and it got the country out of a decade long depression - but the USA stood by on the side lines for years before it entered. Stopping the bloodshed was not why it entered the war.

(Note: careful folks, let's keep out the politics of the right and the left, as well as those of the current administration, pro or con, out of the thread so it can stay in this section).

 

Love my Fords but I'm not the one to tell someone else what they should be driving. To each their own..

 

"That sounds like it might have been a good idea until you watch films of where the Japanese toss Chinese babies up in the air and bayonet them on the way down. Nothing like a contest to see who can stick the most babies on the end of a pole."

Seen the pice, read about Nanjing, Unit 731, etc.
Not Americans. I could care less. That's normal Asian behavior with ample historic precedent. There was also plenty of mutual Kuomintang/Maoist slaughter. Boring.

"One of the problems with ignoring your neighbor's plead for help when they are being robbed, raped, tortured, and slaughtered is when the bad guys are done with your neighbors, then they come for you."

China in no way can be considered our neighbor then or now. Look at a map. If we were to follow that (non) logic we'd be at war everywhere.
If that logic really IS a moral imperative, howabout putting body where mouth is and joining Doctors Without Borders to help save Africans in Congo?
No? I didn't think so.

"So, do you REALLY think we should do business with people that rape and torture children in front of parents, while filming it, and use the tape as a threat and blackmail. Or that kill people by the 100s or 1000s by feeding them through chippers. Or abduct virgins from weddings, rape them, and then feed them to tigers in their zoos?"

Yes.
We did plenty of good business with Iraq when Saddam was useful in containing Iran, and we did vast Lend-Lease business with Stalin to save our interests from Hitler. Stalin may even have had the higher body count! Both those nice men did the US large favors by expending their worthless homicidal people against other worthless homicidal people who were/are our enemies. The Iranians getting cut down in human wave attacks were fewer that could be turned against our oil sources in the region.

If Saddam had stayed out of Kuwait we'd still be sending him gear.

Rummy is not in the current administration, and this wasn't during that, so it should be a safe example:
Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein

American and European advantage are everything. Asians treat other Asians as absolutely expendable so why shouldn't we? The same Chinese we fought for in WWII used the opportunity to kill millions of their fellows, and millions more in the Cultural Revolution. There is no point in sacrificing valuable Americans for worthless beasts who, left to their own devices, slaughter each other with gusto.

I grieve when G.I.s suffer and die. When foreigners from enemy nations and cultures do the same, it's Miller Time.

 

Folks:

Let's keep the inflamatory retoric about the "worthlessness" of people off the forums - it has no room for discussion on FTE.

Consider this the one and only warning about it.

 

I too catch hell from people who feel what I choose to drive is their business. I am dogged at the pumps, stores even at my motel.
I paid dearly for my excursion in 2000 and its paid for and I will prob drive it until it falls apart. I will actually be buried in it and its big enough if my horse and I go together we can both be buried in it.
I always just tell people that at least my purchase of my ex put groceries on someones table as do my repairs and fuel purchases. The higher taxes and fees I have to pay because my vehicle is bigger come registration renewal time help pay for roads etc.
When they chew my hiney at the gas pump I tell them I get 17-23 mpg they are always like "no way you can" I just smile and say think what you will.
I also own a 59 Ford P/U which I am third generation owner. My grandaddy was a Ford mine whose blood ran blue. I have owned chevys in my life and was happy with them as well but I happen to love my Fords.
I am one who doesnt believe what we drive is a reflection of how we feel about america. Some people want a certain car and if it should happen to come from a foreign country or foreign owned company so be it. I didnt realize my dad who gave his life for this country fought for just pick and choose freedoms. He fought for freedom period! and if that means a person has the freedom to choose a toyota so be it.
And in closing let me say that the reason so many have gone to forein cars is because they seem to be a bit more better built than most of the newer american built cars and trucks. I have had three Fords that between them I had 1.987 open end work days, 12,00.00 in repairs, and 2 I just told Ford take them and park them where the sun doesnt shine because they were in the shop more than they were on the road. My 68,000.00 excursion that I was somewhat excited with (my ex traded my F350 for it grrrr) has had to have more work done to it since it was driven off the lot than my stepdads camry he bought the first year they came out. I would like to buy a new Ford pick up but I have pretty much rebuilt my excursion and really dont have faith in the blue oval that my grandfather had.

 

I will NOT give way to anyone on or off the road if they are driving a non american named vehicle. They will have to work to get by me. I am PROUD to be an American and I will show anyone my pride when necessary.
I agree that things change, otherwise we would be using clubs and dragging our women around by the hair. But why must we be forced to change just because "they" say we must? The problem with "Americans" is that a true American will have the pride in American products and the workers that make them. Ford has the best selling truck for 31 years straight. Can any Jap or Korean manufacturer claim that? Anyone seen an import to compare with the Powerstroke diesel? GM tried for over 20 years to come up with a decent diesel and they finally had to go to Isuzu to get it.

 

"I will NOT give way to anyone on or off the road if they are driving a non american named vehicle. They will have to work to get by me"

Exactly HOW do you accomplish this, considering the number of "non american named" vehicles on the road? If they do manage to get by, do you run 'em off the road?

Steve

 

I too get a good laugh when see a subaru with patriotic bumper stickers on it. I guess I should have a more open mind about it, but Im old school, you wont catch me in a Asian car even if it is made here. You cant tell me that of every dollar of that toyota made in the U.S. that .70 cents of that dollar doesnt go back to tokyo. Maybe I am wrong, but I think we should be loyal to U.S.based manufacturers. And I firmly believe that 80% of the foreign manu. reputation for "reliability" is media bias, when toyota has a recall, we never hear about it.We all know what happens when Ford or GM has a recall!..Katie Couric seems to relish bashing US car manufacturers. Ive been driving Fords to work for 29 years, and Ive never had to thumb a ride because of "unreliability".