Cylinder rotational value cold engine 680rpm’s using AE scan tool
#1cil .0.0
#2cil .0.0
#3cil .2.2
#4cil .0.0
#5cil .0.7
#6cil .0.0
#7cil .2.5
#8cil 4.0
MAP sensor
14.6 680rpm
16.9 2500rpm /codes KOER p1536 p0220 p1780 p0703 /injector control pressure 485.00 psi 680rpm 1521 psi 2500rpm/ inj. Pulse width 2.75@ 680rpm icp duty cycle 10.16 % 680rpm 21.00 % 2500rpm
codes CCT
p1184
p0278
p0281
p0284
icp volts 1.80 v 2500rpm
0.88 v 680rpm
Some stuff I pulled with AE scantool my problem is hard cold start rough running till I get to operating temperature. You can also push the throttle to the floor with no response no rpm change. When it warms up the throttle works. I checked all the normal stuff first i.e.. hpop level good, voltage good,gpr and glow plugs ohmed and good, new oil and filter, new fuel filter. Can someone tell me how these numbers look? My truck is a 1999 f-450 psd made in 03/99 15,000 lbs duel wheels with utility boom, 170,000 miles stock.
<!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->

 

P1536 - Parking Brake Applied Failed (can ignore this for now)
P0220 - Throttle Switch B Circuit Malfunction (pedal is shorting out)
P1780 - TCS circuit out of self-test range (engine is not at operating temp when you ran KOER test)
P1184 - Enging Oil Temp out of sell-test range (engine is not at operating temp when you ran KOER test)
P0278 - Cylinder 6 Contribution Fault
P0281 - Cylinder 7 Contribution Fault
P0284 - Cylinder 8 Contribution Fault

Cylinder rotational values, CCT, and KOER tests should all be conducted when the engine is warm. That is where the P1780 and P1184 codes are coming from. Also, CCT tests will fail more often on a cold engine, than on a warm one. Run the KOER test, check the rotational velocities, and the CCT test when the engine is fully warm and post those numbers up.

Your ICP voltage, duty cycle, and pressure looks normal at idle. Your reading at 2500 RPM's is all subjective to load, throttle position, gear, etc, meaning it can vary wildly.... so for now, that can be completely ignored.

MAP sensor looks normal at idle. The reading at 2500 RPM's means nothing, again engine load, gear, RPM's, etc all effect boost, and therefore MAP readings. That 16.9 at 2500 RPM's looks like you just revved the engine at idle.


Ok, now for the fun part, the diagnostics of why your truck starts hard, runs rough, and has no throttle pedal. First, your TPS is probably sticking. That's why the engine doesn't respond to the pedal. Basically the PCM cannot see any changes in the throttle pedal position. You can monitor that on AE under the live data. Depending on which version you have, it will show either the throttle position in %, or it will show voltage. With AE hooked up (and of course the engine is cold so you can duplicate the problem), press the throttle pedal while viewing the live data. See if AE even records any change in throttle position. No change = bad TPS.

As for the hard start and the rough running. Please elaborate more on this if you can. Tell us about how long it takes to crank, or how many times you have to crank. What are the temperatures like? Does the truck smoke more than usual? If it does, what color? What is the rough running like? How long does it last?

The more detail you give, the more we can help you with.

 

wow. great reply thanks pocket didn't expect an answer to all in one post.that really helps me with AE great tool but you have to know what it all means.I'm learning. ok heres whats happining its been getting worse and at any temperature. when it sits overnight and try to start it in the morning it cranks a long time then fires and romps a few times and dies. 2 or 3 tries like that and it finally runs but sounds like only 4 cilenders. very rough and no throttle pedal,after 5 minutes the truck moves but no power til turbo kicks in.once truck is up to operating temperature it runs pretty good still stutters a little at low speeds.starts good when engine is warm.no somke ideling only when you hit the peddal in park there is a slight hesatation a puff of blue smoke then clears. hope i'm being clear enough thanks

 

^^^^^^ What he said. (edit: I meant to post this under Curtis, but I type slow)

It looks like you're also running the gray CPS in your truck. Of course I don't know how you got rotational velocity numbers or a CCT with a cold engine.

Double edit: Starting up then dying, have you checked the oil level in the HPOP before cranking in the morning? What are the outside temps there, what oil are you using, and how old is the oil?

 

new rotella 15-40 and filter, new fuel filter,hpop no more than 3/4 from top,gpr good, unplugged icp no noticable change,removed and cleaned egbp tube wasn't dirty cleaned anyway.using AUTO ENGINUITY SCAN TOOL sorry should of ran cct warm.ran cct with warm engine #8 failed.does this at any temp. 90deg. or 60deg.funny a shop in florida told me #8 injector was bad and installed new ford injector,vcg,and seal kit.I travel a lot and was driving straight thru to michigan and thought the problem was fixed til the truck sat for 2 days and did the same starting problem.got me for $1285.63 repairs in FL.

 

Sounds like a good reason to avoid Florida.

How many seconds does it take during the slow start, and what is the outside temp at the time? When you checked voltage, did you check that with the key off or engine running? Did you happen to check voltage while the engine is cranking and the glow plugs are on? Marginal batteries will read 12v with the truck off, 14v with the truck running, but when the GPR is on and the engine is cranking, may not provide the requierd 10.5v for the IDM to fire the injectors. If there's no smoke out the tailpipe while you're cranking the motor, that means the injectors are not firing.

You might also monitor ICP pressure and ICP % duty cycle while cranking and watch to see what the numbers do. I'm curious how high the ICP duty cycle % gets before it fires, and how long it takes to get there.

Sorry about missing the original post about the new oil.

 

I agree with Chris. Monitor the system voltage when cranking and shortly after starting the truck. Also monitor the ICP pressure, voltage, and duty cycle when cranking to see how the pressure rises.

Another question, are you using oil? I know you just put some fresh oil in there, but do you notice any unusual consumption?

 

it's raining and dark out but i did run one more test with AE scantool accelerator pedalmposition 10.98%-accelerator pedal position volts 0.55 at 680rpms.wet the KOER test still pulls these codes1536parking brake switch-p0220 throttle position sensor switch b circuit -also can you tell me about these 2 codes1780 transmission control switch(o/d cancel)circuit out of self test rangeand p0703 torque converter/brake switch b circuit 2000miles on rebuilt trans. also no oil usage thanks guys for all your help i'm tired of being at a shops mercy when i travel

 

I'd have to look it up, but it seems like part of the KOER test is the switch test. That means if you don't push the go pedal, parking break, OD button, etc. during the test (in the right order) they will throw the code. That would mean ignoring these items as Curtis suggested, would be the right thing to do.

Did you happen to push on the accelerator pedal while monitoring position to watch for a change in %?

 

yes i pushed the acc. pedal in the live data test it does go up and down in the graph. now i understand the koer switch test thanks cylander rotational value with warm engine still 3.2 to4.0 the one with the new injector.

 

I believe 5.0 is the magic number you want to stay below. Since #3 & #8 were higher than the rest, I asked about the new gray CPS (the one being installed during the recall). You might consider swapping a black CPS in there from IH to see if that helps. DP-tuner dot com has them on sale right now.

My #3 & #8 is high right now too since I'm running the gray CPS. I'll get around to sticking the black one in soon. I don't think the CPS is causing your stall issues, but it might help the CCT issues.

 

thanks going to dp now to by one.I also did a buzz test cold engine and they are very quiet they seem a lot louder when i buzz test a warm engine do you think it's the poppets? weak injectors? 170.000 miles stock

 

Try buzz testing several times in a row with a cold engine. If they get louder after several tests, it's a sign of worn or sticking poppets (usually from lack of proper maintenance - oil changes). That could be an (expensive) possibility for your situation. That's why we're trying to check the less expensive stuff first.

 

thanks i'll try that in the morning and post results here.I hope your back tomorrow this site is a big help for me doing my own repairs saving me a lot of cash.at the very least helping me know if i am getting any needed or not needed repairs.